The Lawfare Podcast: Patreon Edition
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Scaling Laws: AI and Energy: What Do We Know? What Are We Learning?
17 oktober 2025 · 52 min
Mosharaf Chowdhury, Associate Professor at the University of Michigan and Director of the ML Energy lab, and Dan Zhou, former Senior Research Scientist at the MIT Lincoln Lab, MIT Supercomputing Center, and MIT CSAIL, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the energy costs of AI. Lees meer
They break down exactly how much energy fuels a single ChatGPT query, why this is difficult to figure out, how we might improve energy efficiency, and what kinds of policies might minimize AI’s growing energy and environmental costs.
Leo Wu provided excellent research assistance on this podcast.
Read more from Mosharaf:
The ML Energy Initiative
“We did the math on AI’s energy footprint. Here’s the story you haven’t heard,” in MIT Technology Review
Read more from Dan:
“From Words to Watts: Benchmarking the Energy Costs of Large Language Model Inference,” in Proc. IEEE High Perform. Extreme Comput. Conf. (HPEC)
“A Green(er) World for A.I.,” in IEEE International Parallel and Distributed Processing Symposium Workshops (IPDPSW)
Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.
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Lawfare Daily: Prosecuting Terrorism and the Pursuit of Justice, with Jake Tapper
16 oktober 2025 · 53 min
Lawfare Public Service Fellow Michael Feinberg sits down with Jake Tapper, the lead Washington anchor for CNN, to discuss his new book, “Race Against Terror: Chasing an Al Qaeda Killer at the Dawn of the Forever War.” The book chronicles the investigation, prosecution, and ultimate conviction of Spin Ghul, an Al Qaeda operative who became the first major international terrorist tried in a U.S. civilian court. Lees meer
Feinberg and Tapper explore what the case reveals about the American justice system in the post-9/11 era, the politics of counterterrorism, and how terrorism prosecutions have influenced the people and policies at the center of national security.
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Rational Security: The “Don’t Upset the Masks” Edition
15 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 13 min
This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes, Kate Klonick, and newly-minted Senior Editor Molly Roberts to talk through the week’s big national security news stories, including: Lees meer
“Peace by Piece.” The first phase of the Trump administration’s peace plan for Gaza went into effect on Monday, resulting in the return of the last living hostages held by Hamas to Israel, among other exchanges. President Trump celebrated the moment with a triumphal speech in front of the Israeli Knesset, followed by a peace conference at Sharm el-Sheikh where the United States signed a joint statement with the heads of state of Egypt, Qatar, and Turkey. While much work remains to be done on implementing the deal, even Trump’s Democratic political rivals have lauded the deal. How much credit does the Trump administration truly deserve? And where is the conflict likely to head from here?
“Un-Civil Service.” Since the U.S. government shut down at the end of September, U.S. agency websites and emails have been plastered with messages unequivocally blaming congressional Democrats and the “radical Left.” It’s an unprecedented use of government resources for a set of messages that looks quite political—exactly what the Hatch Act, among other laws, was intended to prevent. Are these messages consistent with the law?
“Out of Our Element.” China kicked off a major new phase in its economic war with the United States last week, when it imposed major new export controls and rare earth metals and components derived from them—materials essential to various high-end technologies, including the semiconductors that power artificial intelligence. President Trump has since responded with a threat to impose 100% tariffs on Chinese imports—but what China may really want is a relaxation of export controls on AI-related semiconductors. How big a threat is China’s weaponization of its rare earth exports? And how should the United States and its allies respond?
In object lessons, Ben …
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Lawfare Daily: Serhii Plokhii on the History of the Nuclear Arms Race
15 oktober 2025 · 1 uur
Lawfare Contributor Mykhailo Soldatenko sits down with Serhii Plokhii, Harvard History Professor and a leading authority on the history of the Cold War and Ukraine, to discuss his new book, "The Nuclear Age: An Epic Race for Arms, Power and Survival," that tells a history of nuclear proliferation and international efforts to tame it. They discuss the role of fear and prestige in a country's decision to acquire nukes, nuclear strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, preventive wars against nuclear aspirants, Ukraine's decision to give up nuclear weapons it inherited from the Soviet Union, and more. Lees meer
You may also want to look at the following Lawfare pieces about this topic:
"Filling the Security Void of the Budapest Memorandum," by Mykhailo Soldatenko
"Ukraine's Nuclear Moment," by Eric Ciaramella
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Lawfare Daily: How Technologists Can Help Regulators with Erie Meyer and Laura Edelson
14 oktober 2025 · 44 min
Erie Meyer, Senior Fellow at Georgetown Law’s Institute for Technology Law & Policy and Senior Fellow at the Vanderbilt Policy Accelerator, and Laura Edelson, Assistant Professor of Computer Science at Northeastern University, who are coauthors of the recent toolkit, “Working with Technologists: Recommendations for State Enforcers and Regulators,” join Lawfare’s Justin Sherman to discuss how state enforcers and regulators can hire and better work with technologists, what technologists are and are not best-suited to help with, and what roles technologists can play across the different phases of enforcer and regulator casework. They also discuss how to best attract technologists to enforcement and regulation jobs; tips for technologists seeking to better communicate with those lawyers, compliance experts, and others in government with less technology background; and how this all fits into the future of AI, technology, and state and broader regulation. Lees meer
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Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Oct. 10
13 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 42 min
In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Public Service Fellow Loren Voss and Senior Editors Anna Bower, Roger Parloff, Eric Columbus, and Molly Roberts to discuss the legal challenges to the National Guard deployment in Portland and Chicago, a hearing over the attempted deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the arraignment of James Comey, and so much more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch. Lees meer
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Lawfare Archive: Justin Sherman on the FTC Settlement with Location Data Broker X-Mode
12 oktober 2025 · 43 min
From January 19, 2024: Last week, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) reached a settlement with location data broker X-Mode Social. X-Mode collects over 10 billion location data points from all over the world every day, and sells it to clients in a range of industries, like advertisers, consulting firms, and private government contractors. The FTC argued that the data broker was conducting unfair business practices, including selling people’s sensitive location data. Lees meer
To discuss the FTC settlement and its implications, Lawfare's Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sat down with Justin Sherman, Founder and CEO of Global Cyber Strategies and a Senior Fellow at Duke University’s Sanford School of Public Policy. They talked about the FTC’s groundbreaking decision to list sensitive locations about which X-Mode cannot sell data, the likelihood that we will see further FTC action against data brokers, and the persistent need for comprehensive privacy legislation to better address harms.
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Lawfare Archive: Noah Efron on the Awful Quiet of This Moment
11 oktober 2025 · 59 min
From October 10, 2023: This morning, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes connected with his old friend Noah Efron about the weekend's events in Israel. Noah is a professor at Bar-Ilan University, a prolific essayist and writer, and the host of The Promised Podcast, a podcast on Israeli life, politics, and culture. Lees meer
In an interview punctuated twice by missile attacks, they discussed what happened over the weekend, the magnitude and horror of the Hamas attack, the impact on Israeli society, and the coming Israeli response in Gaza. They talked about the weird interregnum between the violence over the weekend and the violence that's to come and how quiet things are right now, about whether Israeli society is coming together or whether it is coming apart, about the implications of Hamas holding many hostages for the way the war is going to play out, and more.
Please note that this episode contains content that some people may find disturbing. Listener discretion is advised.
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Scaling Laws: AI Safety Meet Trust & Safety with Ravi Iyer and David Sullivan
10 oktober 2025 · 47 min
David Sullivan, Executive Director of the Digital Trust & Safety Partnership, and Rayi Iyer, Managing Director of the Psychology of Technology Institute at USC’s Neely Center, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the evolution of the Trust & Safety field and its relevance to ongoing conversations about how best to govern AI. Lees meer
They discuss the importance of thinking about the end user in regulation, debate the differences and similarities between social media and AI companions, and evaluate current policy proposals.
Leo Wu provided excellent research assistance to prepare for this podcast.
Read more from David:
"Why we need to make safety the product to build better bots," from the World Economic Forum Centre for AI Excellence
"Learning from the Past to Shape the Future of Digital Trust and Safety," in Tech Policy Press
Read more from Ravi:
"Ravi Iyer on How to Improve Technology Through Design," from Lawfare's Arbiters of Truth series
"Regulate Design, not Speech," from the Designing Tomorrow Substack
Read more from Kevin:
"California in Your Chatroom: AB 1064’s Likely Constitutional Overreach," from the Cato Institute
Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.
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Lawfare Daily: The State of the Spyware Industry with Jen Roberts and Sarah Graham
9 oktober 2025 · 38 min
Jen Roberts, Associate Director of the Atlantic Council’s Cyber Statecraft Initiative, and Sarah Graham, Research Consultant with the Atlantic Council’s Cyber Statecraft Initiative, who are coauthors along with Nitansha Bansal of the recent paper, “Mythical Beasts: Diving Into the Depths of the Global Spyware Market,” join Lawfare’s Justin Sherman to discuss the global spyware industry, how it has evolved in recent years, and what its future holds. They also discuss the geographic concentration of key spyware entities in several countries; a rise in U.S. investors in the spyware industry; how “strategic jurisdiction hopping,” name changes, and corporate structure shifts impact spyware firms’ evolution and transparency into their activities; and how U.S. policymakers should approach the global spyware market going forward. Lees meer
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Rational Security: The “F*cked by Five” Edition
8 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 24 min
This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Managing Editor Tyler McBrien, Foreign Policy Editor Daniel Byman, and Public Service Fellow Loren Voss to talk through (somehow only three of) the week’s big national security news stories, including: Lees meer
“The Dream of the ‘90s is Alive in Portland.” This past week, the Trump administration made good on its threats to pursue further domestic military deployments, this time to Portland and Chicago. Thus far, the administration has stuck to the same model it pursued in Los Angeles, using troops to bolster federal immigration enforcement efforts. But President Trump has threatened to go further if his efforts are resisted, including by invoking the Insurrection Act—something that hasn’t happened since 1992. How seriously should we take this threat? And where is it likely to lead?
“Strip Poker.” President Trump and his senior advisers have been engaged in serious shuttle diplomacy for the past several weeks, seeming intent on reaching some sort of peace deal in the beleaguered Gaza Strip. And while it’s required him to play every card in his hand—including by bullying both Israel and Hamas into signing on—President Trump appears to be on the verge of a breakthrough. How remarkable an accomplishment is this? And what will it mean for the trajectory of the conflict?
“The Maduro Doctrine.” Media reports suggest that several senior Trump administration officials are intent on removing Venezuelan dictator Nicolas Maduro from power, and that the build-up of U.S. military forces in the region—as well as the lethal targeting of alleged Venezuela-affiliated narcotics traffickers in recent weeks—is just a prelude to a bigger effort at regime change. How likely is it that the Trump administration will take such a step? And what could it mean for the region?
In object lessons, everyone’s taking a break—sort of. Dan’s “break” involves playing The British Way, a strategy game designed by his colleague Stephen Rangazas that even …
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Lawfare Daily: How Are the Courts Doing?
8 oktober 2025 · 52 min
On today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett is joined by Judge Philip Pro and Judge Jeremy Fogel. Both are retired federal court judges who are members of a new organization, the Article III Coalition, which advocates for an independent judiciary. They talk about how the courts are faring amidst the enormous stresses of the day: a huge number of legal challenges to Trump administration actions, a judiciary under constant attack from critics—including several instances of real violence—and serious intra-branch tensions. And they discuss why it is so crucial that judges retain their independence—and how to make sure they do. Lees meer
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Lawfare Daily: ‘38 Londres Street,’ Impunity, and Immunity with Philippe Sands
7 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 4 min
On today’s episode, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with Philippe Sands, a professor of law at the University of London and the Samuel Pisar Visiting Professor at Harvard Law School to discuss his new book, “38 Londres Street: On Impunity, Pinochet in England, and a Nazi in Patagonia.” Lees meer
They discuss the intertwined stories of Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet and Nazi SS commander Walther Rauff, his uncanny personal connections to those stories, how Pinochet’s arrest and the subsequent legal battle over his extradition changed international criminal law, and how writing the book informed his thinking on the U.S. Supreme Court's immunity ruling in Trump v. United States.
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Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Oct. 3
6 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 40 min
In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Scott Anderson, Anna Bower, Eric Columbus, and Roger Parloff to discuss a hearing in the litigation over the National Guard deployment in Portland, states suing the federal government over immigration enforcement conditions being placed on emergency management federal grants, federal employees unions challenging expected reductions in force during the government shutdown, the Supreme Court allowing Lisa Cook to stay on as Fed governor for now, and more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch. Lees meer
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Lawfare Archive: Cox and Wyden on Section 230 and Generative AI
5 oktober 2025 · 31 min
From May 2, 2023: Generative AI products have been tearing up the headlines recently. Among the many issues these products raise is whether or not their outputs are protected by Section 230, the foundational statute that shields websites from liability for third-party content. Lees meer
On this episode of Arbiters of Truth, Lawfare’s occasional series on the information ecosystem, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic and Matt Perault, Director of the Center on Technology and Policy at UNC-Chapel Hill, talked through this question with Senator Ron Wyden and Chris Cox, formerly a U.S. congressman and SEC chairman. Cox and Wyden drafted Section 230 together in 1996—and they’re skeptical that its protections apply to generative AI.
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Lawfare Archive: Bob Bauer and Liza Goitein on Emergency Powers Reform
4 oktober 2025 · 48 min
From September 20, 2024: Bob Bauer, Professor of Practice and Distinguished Scholar in Residence at New York University School of Law, and Liza Goitein, Senior Director of Liberty & National Security at the Brennan Center, join Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to review the emergency powers afforded to the president under the National Emergency Act, International Emergency Economic Powers Act, and the Insurrection Act. The trio also inspect ongoing bipartisan efforts to reform emergency powers. Lees meer
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Lawfare Daily: The Law of the Shutdown
3 oktober 2025 · 52 min
In this episode, Molly Reynolds, Senior Fellow at Brookings and contributing editor at Lawfare, sits down with Nick Bednar, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and contributing editor at Lawfare, and Sam Berger, Senior Fellow on the Federal Fiscal Policy team at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. They discuss why government shutdowns happen, what determines what functions keep operating, how the Trump administration is using this shutdown to pursue novel cuts to the federal workforce, and how to think about the shutdown in the broader context of the Trump administration’s exercise of executive power. Lees meer
For more on this topic, see the following articles:
In Lawfare:
“A Primer on Reductions in Force,” by Nick Bednar
“Don’t Use Shutdown Plans to Slash the Federal Workforce,” by Bridget Dooling
“Reductions in Force During Shutdowns,” by Nick Bednar
“Reductions in Force During Shutdowns: Easier Said Than Done,” by Nick Bednar
From the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:
“Understanding the Legal Framework Governing a Shutdown,” by Sam Berger
“Administration Plans for Mass Firings in a Shutdown Not Justified by Law or Prudent Management,” by Sam Berger
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Lawfare Daily: President Trump’s Peace Plan for Gaza
2 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 7 min
In a live conversation on October 1, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson spoke to Managing Director at S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace Joel Braunold about President Trump’s proposed peace plan for Gaza and what it means for the future of Iraeli-Palestinian relations. Lees meer
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Rational Security: The “Sweet Dreams Are Made of Cheese” Edition
1 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 25 min
This week, Scott sat down with his colleagues Alan Rozenshtein and Anna Bower to talk through the week’s big national security news stories, including: Lees meer
“A Higher Loyalty.” The Justice Department appeared to bow to the demands of President Trump last week when, over the reported objections of several senior officials, it successfully sought the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey for allegedly false statements he made to Congress. But the prosecution is raising a lot of questions among legal experts about the procedures, the substance, and what exactly its odds are for success moving forward. What should we make of this move by the Justice Department? What does this tell us about the prospects for weaponization moving forward?
“A Right to Bare Faces.” California has enacted a new law that, among other measures, will require law enforcement officers of all stripes to limit their use of face masks. But legal experts are torn on whether this policy can constitutionally apply to its clear target: the ICE personnel and other federal law enforcement officers who have started wearing masks for even routine law enforcement activities. How likely is the new law to achieve its goals?
“Legal Code.” California has passed a first of its kind AI safety law, with the support (or at least acquiescence) of industry leaders. Does this point a way forward for AI safety legislation? And how will it make us safer?
In object lessons, the AI overlords completely take over. Alan is vibe coding his way to paying for his kids’ college tuition. Scott’s AI alter ego is making easier work of docket watching with NotebookLM. And even Anna, in search of Jimmy Kimmel jokes, gets a little AI anecdote in through her recent tour of NYC comedy clubs.
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Scaling Laws: The Ivory Tower and AI (Live from IHS's Technology, Liberalism, and Abundance Conference)
1 oktober 2025 · 43 min
Neil Chilson, Head of AI Policy at the Abundance Institute, and Gus Hurwitz, Senior Fellow and CTIC Academic Director at Penn Carey Law School and Director of Law & Economics Programs at the International Center for Law & Economics, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to explore how academics can overcome the silos and incentives that plague the Ivory Tower and positively contribute to the highly complex, evolving, and interdisciplinary work associated with AI governance. Lees meer
The trio recorded this podcast live at the Institute for Humane Studies’s Technology, Liberalism, and Abundance Conference in Arlington, Virginia.
Read about Kevin's thinking on the topic here: https://www.civitasinstitute.org/research/draining-the-ivory-tower
Learn about the Conference: https://www.theihs.org/blog/curated-event/technology-abundance-and-liberalism/
Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.
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Lawfare Daily: The Justice Department as a Political Weapon
30 september 2025 · 52 min
In a live conversation on September 29, Lawfare Senior Editor Kate Klonick spoke to Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes, Lawfare Senior Editor Anna Bower, and Professor of Practice at New York University Bob Bauer about the recent indictment of former FBI Director James Comey and what it says about the Trump administration’s ongoing politicization of the Department of Justice. This conversation is a part of our newly-launched show, Lawfare Live: The Day After, on Substack. You can join us for the next one by becoming a free subscriber to our Substack at lawfare.substack.com.To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/lawfare-institute. Lees meer
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September Minipod: What Can Be Done to Prevent Politicized Policing?
29 september 2025 · 23 min
On this month’s minipod, Lawfare Associate Editor for Communications Anna Hickey talked to Lawfare Contributor Christy Lopez about the guardrails that exist to prevent police from being weaponized for political purposes. Lees meer
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Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Sept. 26
29 september 2025 · 1 uur 45 min
In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Scott Anderson, Anna Bower, Eric Columbus, and Roger Parloff to discuss the Supreme Court granting certiorari in Rebecca Slaughter’s challenge to the president’s attempt to remove her as FTC commissioner, the indictment of James Comey, the Supreme Court allowing President Trump to withhold foreign aid funds, a lawsuit challenging warrantless immigration arrests in D.C., and so much more.You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch. Lees meer
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Lawfare Archive: David Pozen on ‘The Constitution of the War on Drugs’
28 september 2025 · 55 min
From May 10, 2024: David Pozen is the Charles Keller Beekman Professor of Law at Columbia Law School and the author of the new book, “The Constitution of the War on Drugs,” which examines the relationship between the Constitution and drug prohibitions. He joined Jack Goldsmith to talk about the constitutional history of the war on drugs and why the drug war was not curbed by constitutional doctrines about personal autonomy, limits on the federal government’s power, the Equal Protection Clause, or the prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. They also talked about whether the political process is working with advancing decriminalization and how this impacts the constitutional dimension of the drug war. Lees meer
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Lawfare Archive: The Supreme Court Rules in Murthy v. Missouri
27 september 2025 · 43 min
From June 28, 2024: On June 26, the Supreme Court handed down its decision in Murthy v. Missouri—the “jawboning” case, concerning a First Amendment challenge to the government practice of pressuring social media companies to moderate content on their platforms. But instead of providing a clear answer one way or the other, the Court tossed out the case on standing. What now? Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes discussed the case with Kate Klonick of St. Johns University School of Law and Matt Perault, Director of the Center on Technology Policy at the University of North Carolina. Lees meer
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Lawfare Daily: Rethinking Deepfake Response with Gavin Wilde
26 september 2025 · 36 min
Gavin Wilde, Nonresident Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, adjunct lecturer at Johns Hopkins University, and author of the recent paper, “Pyrite or Panic? Deepfakes, Knowledge and the Institutional Backstop,” joins Lawfare’s Justin Sherman to discuss worries about deepfakes and their impact on information and society, the history of audiovisual media and what we can learn from previous evolutions in audiovisual technologies, and the role that fakery has played over the centuries in said media. They also discuss the social media and political context surrounding deepfake evolutions circa 2015; what happened, or not, with deepfakes in elections around the globe in 2024; and how institutions, policy, and law might pursue a less technology-centric approach to deepfakes and their information impacts. Lees meer
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Rational Security: The “I AM an Object Lesson” Edition
25 september 2025 · 1 uur 13 min
This week, Scott sat down with Senior Editors Kate Klonick and Eric Columbus to talk through the week’s big national security news stories, including: Lees meer
“An Un-Airing of Grievances.” Since the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, some supporters of his—including several figures within the Trump administration—have actively sought to have individuals who have said critical or purportedly insensitive things about Kirk removed from their jobs or otherwise punished. This arguably came to a head after Jimmy Kimmel Live! was pulled from the air following statements by FCC Chairman Brendan Carr suggesting networks might face additional regulatory scrutiny for not addressing alleged misinformation about Kirk’s killer he purportedly put forward. And while Kimmel is now back on the air, several major local affiliates are refusing to air his show. How do these efforts comport with the First Amendment? And what do they mean for freedom of speech regardless?
“You Can’t Spell Appeasement Without App.” After months of negotiations—during which it has held off on enforcing a statutorily mandated ban—the Trump administration has announced that it has reached a deal with China regarding the disposition of the social media platform TikTok and its operation in the United States. But the public details of the deal have been few and far between, and much more remains to be worked out. How close to a deal are the parties in actuality? And does it address the national security concerns motivating Congress’s ban in the first place?
“Playing with White House Money.” The Trump administration has been rocked by two major corruption-related stories in the past week. First, the Justice Department is reported to have closed an investigation into White House immigration czar Tom Homan, who reportedly accepted $50,000 from undercover FBI agents prior to joining the administration on the understanding that he would help the donors gain access to the incoming Trump administration. A…
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Scaling Laws: AI and Young Minds: Navigating Mental Health Risks with Renée DiResta and Jess Miers
25 september 2025 · 1 uur
Alan Rozenshtein, Lawfare Senior Editor and Research Director; Renée DiResta, Lawfare Contributing Editor; and Jess Miers, visiting assistant professor of Law at the University of Akron School of Law, discuss the distinct risks that generative AI systems pose to children, particularly in relation to mental health. Lees meer
They explore the balance between the benefits and harms of AI, emphasizing the importance of media literacy and parental guidance. They also examine recent developments in AI safety measures and ongoing legal implications, highlighting the evolving landscape of AI regulation and liability.
Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.
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Lawfare Daily: Analyzing the Administration's New Counterdrug Approach
24 september 2025 · 53 min
Loren Voss, Public Service Fellow at Lawfare, sits down with Dan Byman, Lawfare Foreign Policy Editor and the Director of the Warfare, Irregular Threats, and Terrorism Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies; Ryan Berg, Director of the Americas Program and Head of the Future of Venezuela Initiative also at CSIS; and Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson. They talk about the new United States approach to drug smuggling, the lethal strikes against drug smuggling boats, and the ongoing counterdrug efforts in Mexico. Lees meer
Anderson applies international law to the facts as known on the military strikes on drug smuggling boats, highlighting the difficulties of treating drug smuggling as a “use of force” and a transnational criminal organization as a non-state armed group. Byman and Berg discuss the importance of the host government in dealing with terrorist or criminal threats, but are skeptical that the counterterrorism framing will be effective without also addressing the demand for drugs within the United States. The group ends with a discussion on how current strategies and legal analysis could be applied to other geographies or criminal groups.
Mentioned in this episode:
“Deploying U.S. Vessels to the Caribbean Is a Show of Force,” by Ryan Berg and Eric Farnsworth
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Lawfare Daily: What’s Behind Russian Incursions Into NATO
23 september 2025 · 1 uur 2 min
In this episode, Lawfare’s Ukraine Fellow Anastasiia Lapatina sits down with Minna Ålander, an associate fellow at Chatham House Europe Program, and Mykhailo Soldatenko, a scholar of international law and a doctoral candidate at Harvard Law School, to discuss Russia’s recent air incursions into Poland and Estonia, and whether NATO’s response to it has been proportional. Lees meer
For more, read a report about Russian hybrid warfare co-authored by Minna Ålander.
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Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Sept. 18
22 september 2025 · 1 uur 34 min
In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Anna Bower, Eric Columbus, and Roger Parloff to discuss Kash Patel’s testimony in front of Congress, a preliminary injunction preventing the Trump administration from deporting some Guatemalan children, updates in Fed. Governor Lisa Cook’s challenge to President Trump’s attempt to remove her, and so much more. Lees meer
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Lawfare Archive: Jane Bambauer, Ramya Krishnan, and Alan Rozenshtein on the Constitutionality of the TikTok Bill
21 september 2025 · 43 min
From September 18, 2024: Jane Bambauer, Professor at Levin College of Law; Ramya Krishnan, Senior Staff Attorney at the Knight First Amendment Institute and a lecturer in law at Columbia Law School; Alan Rozenshtein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota Law School and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, join Kevin Frazier, Assistant Professor at St. Thomas University College of Law and a Tarbell Fellow at Lawfare, to break down the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals’ hearing in TikTok v. Garland, in which a panel of judges assessed the constitutionality of the TikTok bill. Lees meer
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Lawfare Archive: The Past, Present, and Future of War Powers with Brian Finucane and Matt Waxman
20 september 2025 · 1 uur 2 min
From September 12, 2024: Without new congressional authorization for its post-Oct. 7 operations in the Middle East, the Biden administration has sought to legally justify its military activities in the region based on the president’s constitutional authority and the application of existing statutory authorities to operations against new adversaries. These executive branch arguments are the outgrowth of similar arguments presidential administrations have made over the last few decades, largely related to the requirements in the War Powers Resolution. Lees meer
The International Crisis Group recently analyzed these arguments and related issues in a new report, “Bending the Guardrails: U.S. War Powers after 7 October.” Tyler McBrien and Matt Gluck of Lawfare spoke with Brian Finucane, a senior adviser for the U.S. Program at the International Crisis Group and an author of the report, and Matthew Waxman, a professor at Columbia Law School, about the Crisis Group’s report. They discussed the history relevant to the current war powers moment, how the Biden administration has continued to justify its operations without new legislative authority, and the possibility of war powers legal reform moving forward.
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Scaling Laws: AI Copyright Lawsuits with Pam Samuelson
19 september 2025 · 1 uur
On today's Scaling Laws episode, Lawfare Senior Editor and Research Director Alan Rozenshtein sits down with Pam Samuelson, the Richard M. Sherman Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law, to discuss the rapidly evolving legal landscape at the intersection of generative AI and copyright law. They dive into the recent district court rulings in lawsuits brought by authors against AI companies, including Bartz v. Anthropic and Kadrey v. Meta. They explore how different courts are treating the core questions of whether training AI models on copyrighted data is a transformative fair use and whether AI outputs create a “market dilution” effect that harms creators. They also touch on other key cases to watch and the role of the U.S. Copyright Office in shaping the debate. Lees meer
Mentioned in this episode:
"How to Think About Remedies in the Generative AI Copyright Cases," by Pam Samuelson in Lawfare
Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, Inc. v. Goldsmith
Bartz v. Anthropic
Kadrey v. Meta Platforms
Thomson Reuters Enterprise Centre GmbH v. Ross Intelligence Inc.
U.S. Copyright Office, Copyright and Artificial Intelligence, Part 3: Generative AI Training
Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.
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Lawfare Daily: A Trip Through Pennsylvania’s Nascent AI Data Center Industry
18 september 2025 · 44 min
On today’s episode, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sits down with with Maia Woluchem, the Director of Data & Society’s Trustworthy Infrastructures program, along with one of the program’s researchers, Livia Garofalo, and Joan Mukogosi, an affiliate with the program and a PhD candidate at the London School of Economics. They discuss their recent research trips across Pennsylvania, where they learned about the state’s industrial histories and futures, as well as the immediate and potential future impacts of the nascent AI data center industry. Lees meer
Read more on the work of Data & Society’s Trustworthy Infrastructures program here:
“Digital Infrastructures, Material Consequences: A Road Trip Through Pennsylvania’s Industrial Histories and Technological Futures”
“In Pennsylvania, a Nuclear Revival for an Uncertain AI Future”
“Data Centers Aren’t the Future of American Prosperity”
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Rational Security: The “Ten Years, Still Off-Key” Edition
17 september 2025 · 1 uur 47 min
For this week's very special episode on Rational Security's 10th anniversary, Scott sat down with a slew of co-hosts emeritus, each of whom brought their own topic to discuss. Lees meer
Shane Harris flagged the connections between online radicalization and the young men behind many recent public acts of gun violence, including the alleged perpetrator of the Charlie Kirk killing;
Benjamin Wittes insisted we are STILL not talking enough about Russian drone incursions and other forms of gray zone warfare in Eastern Europe;
Quinta Jurecic brought some statistics about the success (or not) of the Trump administration's federalization of law enforcement in D.C. (and elsewhere) that are worth contemplating; and
Alan Rozenshtein asked how it can still be true that no one but him seems to care about the Trump administration blatantly disregarding the TikTok ban.
In object lessons, Shane is basking in the glory of HBO’s “Somebody Somewhere”—partly because his buddy Jeff Hiller just won an Emmy for his role in it. Ben praises Adam Boehler—and even Donald Trump—for helping secure Elizabeth Tsurkov’s release. Alan is definitely not using this opportunity to use Pacific Rim for his object lesson—really—instead recommending fantasy mystery “The Tainted Cup,” by Robert Jackson Bennett. Scott takes us into orbit with Samantha Harvey’s “Orbital,” a lyrical meditation on life and reflection in space. And Quinta dives into the future with “Empire of AI,” by Karen Hao, a deeply reported look at OpenAI and its role in shaping the technology’s trajectory
Last call to help us celebrate Lawfare’s 15th anniversary! Get your tickets now to join us this Friday, 9/19, to hear from some of your favorite Lawfare people past and present, take a look back on the key moments that have shaped our first 15 years, and get a sneak peek into what’s coming next.
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Lawfare Daily: What Israel's Gaza City Offensive and Airstrikes in Qatar Mean for the Region
17 september 2025 · 1 uur 7 min
For today's episode, Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sits down with Dan Byman, Senior Fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies; Joel Braunold, Managing Director of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace; and Natan Sachs, Senior Fellow at the Middle East Institute, to discuss several recent developments in the Israel-Hamas conflict and the broader region. Lees meer
Together, they discuss Israel's latest offensive in Gaza, its decision to launch airstrikes against Hamas's leadership in Qatar, and Benjamin Netanyahu's recent meeting with Secretary of State Marco Rubio—and what it all says about his (and Donald Trump's) vision for a new regional order.
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Lawfare Daily: The Litigation Challenging Pres. Trump's Alien Enemies Act, with Lee Gelernt
16 september 2025 · 48 min
Lee Gelernt, Deputy Director of the ACLU's Immigrants' Rights Project, speaks to Senior Editor Roger Parloff about the cases he has led challenging the validity of Pres. Trump's Alien Enemies Act Proclamation. Lees meer
They discuss the ACLU's recent victory in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit and the status of the group's original case, in Washington, D.C., including its attempt to inquire into whether Executive Branch officials defied court orders.
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Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Sept. 12
15 september 2025 · 1 uur 43 min
In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Scott Anderson, Anna Bower, Eric Columbus, and Roger Parloff and Lawfare Public Service Fellow Michael Feinberg to discuss the Supreme Court staying a lower court order that prevented the firing of Rebecca Slaughter as FTC Commissioner, a federal appeals court upholding E. Jean Carroll’s judgement, Fed. Governor Lisa Cook’s lawsuit challenging President Trump’s attempt to fire her, the politicization of the FBI and its impact on investigations like the search for Charlie Kirk’s shooter, and more. Lees meer
You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch.
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Lawfare Archive: What the ‘Kids’ Think of NATO with Rachel Rizzo
14 september 2025 · 31 min
From June 3, 2024: Rachel Rizzo, a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Europe Center, joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about last month’s NATO Youth Summit. Building off of her chapter “NATO, Public Opinion, and the Next Generation: Remaining Relevant, Remaining Strong,” in the 2021 book, “NATO 2030: Towards a New Strategic Concept and Beyond,” Rizzo discusses what NATO thinks of Gen Z and Millennials, the many efforts the Alliance is making to pitch to them its relevance and purpose, and the ways in which NATO could better integrate youth voices into discussions about the Alliance’s future. She also explains how and why Gen Z and Millennial views on NATO, foreign policy, and America’s changing role in the world differ from older generations. And yes, they even discuss Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo. Lees meer
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Lawfare Archive: Brian Winter on the Imminent Election Crisis in Brazil
13 september 2025 · 32 min
From September 27, 2022: In just under a week, on October 2, Brazil will hold the first round of its general election, which will determine the country's next president. To talk through all things Brazilian politics, Lawfare managing editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Brian Winter, editor-in-chief of Americas Quarterly and a journalist with over a decade of experience living and reporting across Latin America. They discussed the leading candidates, Jair Bolsonaro and Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, the potential election crisis, and what's at stake as Brazilians head to the polls on Sunday. Lees meer
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Scaling Laws: The State of AI Safety with Steven Adler
12 september 2025 · 49 min
Steven Adler, former OpenAI safety researcher, author of Clear-Eyed AI on Substack, and independent AGI-readiness researcher, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and Senior Fellow at Lawfare, to assess the current state of AI testing and evaluations. The two walk through Steven’s views on industry efforts to improve model testing and what he thinks regulators ought to know and do when it comes to preventing AI harms. Lees meer
Thanks to Leo Wu for research assistance!
Find Scaling Laws on the Lawfare website, and subscribe to never miss an episode.
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Rational Security: The “Trump Ruined My Dinner” Edition
11 september 2025 · 1 uur 10 min
This week, Scott sat down with his Lawfare colleagues Benjamin Wittes and Natalie Orpett, and Professor of Law at Cardozo Law School Rebecca Ingber, to talk through the week’s big national security news, including: Lees meer
“Uninvited Aerial Vehicles.” The Polish government is claiming that nineteen armed Russian UAVs penetrated its airspace last night. While Russians are suggesting no attack was intended, Poland has invoked Article IV of the NATO Treaty and worked with allied NATO aircraft to shoot the drones down. What might be happening here? And does it mean we’re on our way to World War III as some are suggesting?
“Bibi is a Killer Negotiator. No, Wait—Switch That.” Within days of the Trump administration tabling another ceasefire proposal—and, by some accounts, making progress in pressuring Hamas to accept it—Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu authorized a set of missile strikes that killed the leaders of Hamas’s political wing in nearby Qatar. It’s the first such move in a Gulf country, many of which have moved towards normalization with Israel through the Trump-backed Abraham Accords. What explains Israel’s actions? And what do they portend for the conflict in Gaza and the region as a whole?
“Cruise Control.” A week has passed since the Trump administration took the controversial step of targeting a boat alleged to be smuggling narcotics at the direction of the Venezuelan criminal organization Tren de Aragua with lethal force. The Trump administration hasn’t repeated the move, but it’s said it intends to. And U.S. military assets—including strategic assets whose use in a counter-narcotics military campaign is far from clear—have continued to build up in the region, leading some to believe that a broader campaign against Venezuela itself may yet be in the offing. How likely is a broader campaign? And could its implications be, legally and politically?
In Object Lessons, Ben is cheering on a cadre of former FBI agents suing Kash Patel over their firings, an…
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Lawfare Daily: The 9/11 Case in Guantanamo
11 september 2025 · 1 uur 7 min
Twenty-four years ago today, two planes crashed into the World Trade Center in New York, another hit the Pentagon, and another went down in a field in Pennsylvania. It was the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil in American history. But the men the United States accuses of perpetrating the attacks haven't been held accountable. In fact, they haven't even gone to trial. Lees meer
For today's podcast, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett talks with John Ryan, a journalist at Lawdragon and author of the book, “America's Trial: Torture and the 9/11 Case on Guantanamo Bay,” to help explain why. They talk about John's 10 years covering the 9/11 case, why it's so hard to report from Guantanamo, why the case has been bogged down in pretrial proceedings for over a decade, and what torture has to do with it all.
Note: Orpett referred to Lawfare's recent coverage of the 9/11 case, including pieces about Secretary Austin's withdrawal, the military commission's ruling upholding the pleas, the D.C. Circuit's reversal, and the recent suppression ruling in the Ammar al Baluchi case.
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Lawfare Daily: Adam Chan on the FCC’s Growing Role in National Security
10 september 2025 · 55 min
For today’s episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson and Contributing Editor Brandon Van Grack sit down with Adam Chan, the first National Security Counsel at the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), to discuss the FCC’s increasingly important role in U.S. national security policy. Lees meer
Together they discuss the origins of the FCC’s role in national security, how and why it has grown in an era of major power competition, and several of the initiatives they currently have underway.
Since recording, the FCC has taken further action on one such issue: the problem of “bad labs.” You can read their press release here.
This episode is part of the special “The Regulators” podcast series, which features conversations with senior officials working at the intersection of national security and the economy.
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Lawfare Daily: Sanctions, Speech, and Sovereignty in Brazil
9 september 2025 · 56 min
For today’s episode, Lawfare Contributing Editor Renée DiResta interviews Joan Barata, Visiting Professor at the Catholic University of Porto; Laís Martins, journalist at The Intercept Brazil and Fellow at Tech Policy Press; and James Görgen, adviser to Brazil’s Ministry of Development, Industry, Trade, and Services, to discuss the dramatic intersection of tech policy and geopolitical pressure unfolding in Brazil. They discuss the trial of former President Jair Bolsonaro for his role in the January 8 insurrection, the legal battles surrounding social media regulation and platform liability, the influence of Supreme Court Justice Alexandre de Moraes, and the controversy sparked by U.S. sanctions and tariffs. Together, they examine whether the intersection of tech and geopolitics in Brazil is an outlier—or a preview of what’s coming for democracies worldwide. Lees meer
Read more on this topic from this episode’s guests:
“Trump’s Attack on Brazil’s Sovereignty May Backfire on US Tech Firms,” by Laís Martins
“Trump’s New Brazil Tariffs Aren’t About Trade, and They’re Not About Free Speech,” by Laís Martins
“Brazil’s Supreme Court Overturns Platform Liability Rules—Now Comes the Challenge of What’s Next,” by Laís Martins
"Brazil Has a Bridge to Defending the Internet," by James Görgen
"O Vale do Silício contra a parede?" by James Görgen
"O sequestro da soberania digital," by James Görgen
"Felca, Trump e fatiamentos digitais," by James Görgen
“Regulating Online Platforms Beyond the Marco Civil in Brazil: The Controversial ‘Fake News Bill,’”by Joan Barata
“JOTA: Dilemmas of Platform Regulation in Brazil,” by Joan Barata
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Lawfare Daily: The Trials of the Trump Administration, Sep 5
8 september 2025 · 1 uur 38 min
In a live conversation on YouTube, Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Roger Parloff and Scott Anderson, Lawfare Public Service Fellow Loren Voss, and the Brennan Center's Katherine Yon Ebright to discuss the ongoing activation of National Guard in the District of Columbia, the Trump Administration's lethal strike in the Caribbean, and Harvard University's win over its funding fight in federal court. You can find information on legal challenges to Trump administration actions here. And check out Lawfare’s new homepage on the litigation, new Bluesky account, and new WITOAD merch. Lees meer
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Lawfare Archive: How the FBI is Combating Cyberattacks, with Brett Leatherman
7 september 2025 · 54 min
From March 28, 2024: One of the gravest threats to U.S. national security today—and also one of the newest—is the risk of cyberattacks. They come in many forms, and they can incapacitate companies, institutions, and even the government. Lees meer
To better understand these threats—and how the government is responding to them—Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett and Lawfare Contributing Editor Brandon Van Grack sat down with Brett Leatherman, Deputy Assistant Director for Cyber Operations at the FBI. They discussed the FBI's recent operations, threats from both state actors and criminal gangs, and the role of the private sector in U.S. cybersecurity.
This is the latest episode in our special series, “The Regulators,” co-sponsored with Morrison Foerster, in which we talk with senior government officials working at the front lines of U.S. national security policy.
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Lawfare Archive: A Conversation with an Exiled Venezuelan Opposition Leader
6 september 2025 · 26 min
From August 22, 2024: Anastasiia Lapatina is a Kyiv-based Ukraine Fellow at Lawfare. Leopoldo Lopez is a Venezuelan opposition leader living in exile in Madrid, after escaping prison for leading protests against Nicolás Maduro in 2014. Lapatina and Lopez discuss the results of Venezuela’s recent presidential election, ties between Venezuela’s autocrat Nicolás Maduro and other dictatorships, and the path forward for Venezuela after the rigged election. Lees meer
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Lawfare Daily: U.S. Military Conducts Lethal Strike on Venezuelan ‘Drug Boat’
5 september 2025 · 1 uur
In a live conversation on Sept. 4, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson and Professor of Law at Cardozo Law School Rebecca Ingber to discuss the U.S. strike on an alleged “drug boat” traveling from Venezuela, the president’s authority to use lethal force outside of war, and more. Lees meer
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