I'll Drink to That! Wine Talk

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1. 504: Is Cory Empting Writing the Next Chapter of Napa Valley Cabernet at Harlan Estate?

   23 juli 2026 · 2 uur 11 min

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   Cory Empting is Managing Director of Winegrowing at Domain H. William Harlan, overseeing Harlan Estate, BOND, Promontory, and The Mascot in the Napa Valley of California. Lees meer

   Cory recounts his memories of growing up in the Napa Valley and learning about winemaking from the age of 15. He recalls running around The French Laundry as a kid and helping out with a harvest at Forman Vineyard. He also talks about his first experiences at Harlan Estate, a property where he has now worked for decades. Cory discusses why he decided to pursue a career at Harlan, which led to being named the Winemaker of the property years later.

   Cory talks about Bob Levy, the Founding Winemaker of Harlan Estate, who Cory still works with today. He also describes working for Bill Harlan and Will Harlan, the owners of the property. Cory talks about the 1997 vintage at Harlan Estate, and his experiences tasting that wine over the years. He also shares some thoughts about the ageing trajectory of Harlan wines in general.

   Cory discusses the Harlan property itself and contrasts it with the nearby Promontory vineyard, then describes how the winemaking approach for Promontory evolved over time. This leads into a discussion of how the approach at Harlan Estate has changed over the years, both in terms of the farming and the winemaking. One key change has been the move to dry farming (without irrigation), and Cory talks about the implications of that shift. Other topics that emerge in the discussion include soil health, head trained vines, vineyard exposure, harvest date, native yeast fermentation, fermentation temperature, stem inclusion, extraction, tannin management, avoiding acidification, the duration of malolactic conversion, press wine, and the length of élevage. Amidst this discussion Cory emphasizes his respect for Bob Levy’s accomplishments and frames the shifts at Harlan over time as a natural evolution in a multi-generational business.

   Cory shares the terrible circumstances surrounding the …

2. 503: Peter Jakob Kühn Found Quality Along With Pain

   13 augustus 2025 · 1 uur 13 min

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   Peter Jakob Kühn made the wines at Weingut Peter Jakob Kühn in Germany's Rheingau region for many decades before retiring and passing the family winery on to his son Peter Bernhard Kühn. Lees meer

   Peter Jakob, who was born in 1954, alludes to the constrained economic situation that existed in the German countryside following the Second World War. He recalls his grandfather, who had lived through two World Wars, and the relationship that his grandfather had with the rest of the family. Peter Jakob then describes meeting his wife and taking over the family winery in 1979 in the wake of his father's death. He recalls what steps he took to improve the quality of the wines and add to the size of the estate in the early days after assuming control. He contrasts his approach to the vineyards with the post-War emphasis on high yields that some of neighbors pursued. Peter Jakob speaks about a trip to Burgundy that served as an early inspiration. He also describes the setting and landscape of the area within the Rheingau where the winery is situated.

   Peter Jakob converted the estate to Biodynamic farming, and he describes the very personal reasons for that and other key decisions. As the quality of the wines improved, so did Peter Jakob's level of satisfaction with his own wines and their renown in the critical press. Peter Jakob describes how his mindset changed in response to both praise and some failure from others to understand the direction he was taking the wines. Specifically, he addresses the 1999 vintage for the winery and the malolactic conversion that took place in that year and others afterwards. He then talks about how a malolactic conversion changes the characteristics of a Riesling, and describes his vision for what a Riesling can be. Then he contrasts that vision for a Riesling with the stereotype of a racy, fruity German Riesling, which he was trying to avoid. Looking back from this vantage point, Peter Jakob describes the importance of his experimental phase in the…

3. 502: Matt Dees Likes How Grapevines Think

   1 april 2025 · 1 uur 56 min

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   Matt Dees is the winemaker at JONATA, The Hilt, and The Paring, wineries which are located in California's Santa Barbara County. Lees meer

   Matt recalls studying plant and soil science, and then his first job at a winery, at Shelburne Vineyard in Vermont. He then describes a chance encounter with a bottle of Staglin Family Cabernet Sauvignon, which prompted a phone call to the Staglin family and a trip to California to visit. Soon enough, Matt was working at Staglin, alternating between vintages there and in New Zealand at Craggy Range Winery.

   Matt discusses various early influences on his winemaking, including Andy Erickson, Doug Wiser, Adrian Baker, and Michel Rolland. He touches on learning to blend for texture and structure, with an approach to blending for the mid-palate. Matt also notes the handling of press wines, and when blending decisions are made. He talks about avoiding blending for aromatics.

   Matt contrasts the harvest conditions in New Zealand and in the Napa Valley in the early 2000s, as well as the resulting wines. He further talks about how some of the elements of each can be found in the wines of Santa Barbara County, and about his own transition to making wines there at JONATA. He emphasizes the diurnal shift in Ballard Canyon, the difference between the daytime and nighttime temperatures in the vineyard.

   Matt speaks of Santa Barbara County - and specifically Ballard Canyon - as a young region, noting the wide range of grape varieties that have been planted at JONATA as they try to figure out what works well at the site. Matt also addresses the ageing curve of the JONATA wines. He distinguishes between ageing as surviving and ageing as evolving.

   Matt addresses the fundamentals of the wines that he is responsible for, including harvesting and winemaking decisions. He details his approach to picking Sauvignon Blanc at different ripeness levels for the same eventual wine. He talks about a purity of fruit as an overrated concept, and explains his approach …

4. 501: This Conversation with Meike Näkel Has A Terrifying Turn

   3 januari 2025 · 1 uur 23 min

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   Meike Näkel and her sister Dörte run the Meyer-Näkel winery in the Ahr region of Germany. Lees meer

   As a winery, over 90% of Meyer-Näkel's production is of red wine, and most of that is Spätburgunder (Pinot Noir). Meike explains that the historical roots of red wine production in the Ahr region may stretch back to the 14th century, and that there may have been Spätburgunder planted in Ahr in the 19th century. She discusses the situation for the red wines of Germany in general and the situation for wine in the Ahr in the 1970s and 1980s. Meike also talks about how her father Werner Näkel significantly expanded the production of the winery by acquiring vineyards in the 1980s and later. Meike distinguishes between the sorts of concentrated dry red wines from limited grape yields her father was making from Spätburgunder, and the more mass production sweet red wines that at one time were more common from the Ahr. She also touches on how her father learned about wine as an autodidact, traveling to regions like Burgundy and speaking with vigneron like Henri Jayer about various topics related to the production of Pinot Noir.

   Meike discusses the evolution of the German wine consumer and the popular taste for wine within Germany in the second half of the twentieth century until now. She notes some of the top German dry red wine producers of the 1980s and 1990s, a group which included her father Werner. She also talks about the shift at the winery as she and her sister Dörte took on more decisions for the property and the wines. Meike describes going to Burgundy for an internship with Dominique Lafon of Comtes Lafon in Meursault. She remembers tasting the Meyer-Näkel wines with Dominique and getting his feedback on winemaking techniques such as a cold soak maceration and a delayed malolactic conversion, which she then implemented back home. Meike talks about using winemaking techniques to increase the fruit aspect of wines from the Ahr that typically show more savory notes owing to t…

5. 500: Richard Sanford and the Hot Tub Time Machine Wine Fermenters

   4 juni 2024 · 1 uur 58 min

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   Richard Sanford co-founded the Sanford and Benedict Winery and planted the Sanford and Benedict Vineyard. He founded the Sanford Winery, and he also founded the Alma Rosa Winery, all in Santa Barbara County, California. Lees meer

   Richard discusses his sailing career, working in the merchant marine, racing boats recreationally, and as an officer in the United States Navy. He talks about his travels around the globe, both before and after his service in the Vietnam War. He reflects on his short time working in business and education, and then his segue to planting a vineyard in what became the Sta. Rita Hills appellation of California. That vineyard became known as the Sanford and Benedict vineyard, and Richard co-founded the Sanford and Benedict Winery with Michael Benedict to produce wine from that vineyard. They had realized that Santa Barbara County, with its transverse mountain range, offered opportunities for growing vines in areas cooled by winds coming off the Pacific Ocean.

   Richard remembers his introduction to wine and a bottle of Volnay, and his desire to plant Pinot Noir in the Sanford and Benedict Vineyard. He talks about the early days getting the vineyard going, in an area where Pinot Noir had not been planted previously. He discusses the geography and geology of the place, as well as the history of ownership there. Richard recalls converting a small barn into a winemaking facility, building the fermenters, and inviting his friends to harvest the first grapes from Sanford and Benedict. He also recalls the subsequent visit from the local sheriff. Besides the attention of the police, the activity at Sanford and Benedict also drew interest from wine writer Robert Lawrence Balzer, who wrote about the wine being made near Lompoc.

   Richard talks throughout this interview about both the agriculture aspect and the business side of making wine. He notes that tax write offs were an impetus for the planting of many of the vineyards in Santa Barbara County in the 1970s. H…

6. 499: David Rafanelli on Four Generations Making Wine in California

   10 mei 2024 · 1 uur 21 min

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   David Rafanelli and his family own the A. Rafanelli Winery in the Dry Creek Valley of Sonoma County, California. Lees meer

   David relates the story of his Italian grandmother arriving in California in 1903, and beginning to make homemade wine in San Francisco. He explains how the family bought farm land in the Dry Creek Valley in the 1920s, thus beginning a 100 year stretch of working with vines within a 3 mile radius, something which continues today. The current winery housing A. Rafanelli was founded in 1973.

   David took agronomy and crop science courses in Oregon in the late 1960s, and also went to school for viticulture in California. He has throughout his career compared and combined the wisdom that was passed on to him by his family members with the teachings he learned in school. David went to work for the Lambert Bridge Winery in the 1970s, allowing him the opportunity to contrast the situation of another winery with that of his own family. David’s dad, who passed away in 1987, typically worked with Zinfandel and complementary grape varieties at the Rafanelli winery. David convinced him to also plant Cabernet Sauvignon. David discusses the introduction of heat treated vines in the 1970s, and the prevalence of leaf roll virus prior to their introduction. He speaks about the failure of the AxR1 rootstock in California, and how that shaped the replanting of vines later on in the state. David emphasizes working a piece of land and the importance of being familiar with it.

   The process of achieving an appellation for the Dry Creek Valley started in 1982, and David speaks about that, as well as the characteristics of the Dry Creek Valley in terms of climate, soils, and geography. He also talks about the challenges to Zinfandel presented by cooler and hotter years, and how he approaches blending from different sites within Dry Creek to achieve consistency. He further talks about the difference between making a wine just from Zinfandel versus blending other grape varieties i…

7. 498: A Rush of Blood to the Wine Glass from Dan Keeling

   8 februari 2024 · 1 uur 27 min

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   Dan Keeling is a co-founder and partner in the Noble Rot restaurants and Shrine to the Vine retail shops in London, "Noble Rot" Magazine, and Keeling Andrew and Co., an importer of wine into the United Kingdom. He co-authored "The Noble Rot Book: Wine From Another Galaxy". Lees meer

   Dan admits to some of his obsessions, namely food and music. He describes how a friend's accident allowed him the chance to start a nightclub in Manchester. He talks about his early jobs writing about music, and then progressing to working in A&R for record labels. He signed Coldplay to Parlophone Records, marking a huge win, but admits that at first he wasn't that taken with the band. He then succinctly breaks down the elements that contributed to Coldplay's massive success. That success propelled Dan to a Managing Director job at Island Records, but eventually that career high gave way to a career transition, as Dan found himself without a job and wondering what to do next.

   Dan met his now business partner Mark Andrew at a wine shop near the Island Records office, and they quickly established that they shared a sense of humor and a fascination for the same wines. They went on to begin a wine magazine (er, fanzine) titled "Noble Rot" in 2012, working together on Mark's old computer. Writing for the magazine led to introductions to vigneron, some of whom joined the import portfolio of Keeling Andrew and Co. The magazine also led to the start of a wine focused restaurant group, today encompassing three Noble Rot restaurants in London. Dan talks about being a restauranteur who is not a chef, and about the emphasis of the restaurants on wine.

   Dan discusses how the writing and graphics in the "Noble Rot" magazine are designed to stand out from other publications about wine. He talks about contextualizing wine amongst other aspects of culture, such as food and music. He rejects the idea of trying to be objective or encyclopedic about wine. Instead, Dan emphasizes the importance placed on humor in h…

8. 497: Robert Drouhin Is From A Good Vintage

   7 januari 2024 · 1 uur 44 min

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   Robert Drouhin and his family own Maison Joseph Drouhin in the Burgundy region of France, as well as Domaine Drouhin in the Willamette Valley of Oregon. Lees meer

   Robert describes moving to Burgundy as a child, and his experiences around Beaune during World War 2. His adoptive father, Maurice Drouhin, owned the Maison Joseph Drouhin winery, and began instructing Robert in the specifics of wine. Maurice was a wine producer, making wines from vineyards near Beaune. Robert remembers Maurice also as a sales agent for the wines of the Domaine de la Romanee-Conti, and a Vice President of the Hospices de Beaune. Robert recalls Maurice hiding from arrest by the Nazis during the war years, taking shelter for months in the Hospices de Beaune. When Maurice had a medical emergency, Robert assumed control of the Maison Joseph Drouhin winery.

   Robert discusses the notable Burgundy vintages of the 20th century, from the 1930s through the 1990s. He also talks about his decision making after taking control of Maison Joseph Drouhin at the age of 24. He recalls traveling to California and meeting Robert Mondavi. He then describes the development of enology and new techniques for wine in the 1950s, his experiments, and eventual response to the wines produced with new methods. Robert talks about the wave of vine replantings that took hold in Burgundy after World War 2, and what that meant for the wines. He expanded the Drouhin vineyard holdings in the Cote d’Or and in Chablis, and Robert talks about the characteristics of famous vineyards like Le Montrachet, the Clos des Mouches, Griotte-Chambertin, Musigny, Bonnes-Mares, Chambolle-Musigny Les Amoureuses, and Vosne-Romanee Les Petits Monts.

   Robert talks about his children, and their roles in the Drouhin businesses today. He remembers hiring Laurence Jobard at Drouhin in the 1970s. He talks about the style of the Drouhin wines, and takes up the question of tannins and extraction in red Burgundy wines. He also speaks about the changes in the Dro…

9. 496: Sandy Block's Shot at Redemption

   24 december 2023 · 1 uur 21 min

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   Sandy Block was a Master of Wine who was also the Vice President of Beverage at the Legal Sea Foods group of restaurants, and an Adjunct Professor at Boston University in Massachusetts. Sandy passed away in November of 2021. Lees meer

   Sandy talks about his rollercoaster relationship with academics: doing very well in school during some periods of his life, and almost flunking out of school during others. Sandy explains that he began working at a restaurant while working on his PhD dissertation. He would eventually abandon his dissertation, but pursue his interest in wine at the restaurant. He explains how he was given his first wine job in 1981. The only French speaker on the waitstaff, he was promoted to the sommelier role, although he did not know anything about wine. He looked for answers about wine in books that he would consult during his shifts. He found that the subject of wine encompassed many of the fields of study that he already had an interest in, such as geology and history.

   During his first wine tasting trip to Europe in the 1980s, Sandy discovered that wine was made by farmers, and that those farmers didn't always live in elaborate palaces or chateaux. He came back to the States more energized about wine at the same time that there was a greater shift towards wine in the wider American culture. Customers were beginning to show more interest in wine at the restaurants, with the rise of varietal wines by the glass and an increase in interest in opting for wine instead of a cocktail. In the interview, Sandy discusses the character of the Boston wine trade in the 1980s and later.

   Sandy talks about his experiences taking the Master of Wine exam. Having obtained his MW in 1992, Sandy was one of the first Americans to achieve that distinction. He talks about learning to pass the test, writing essays under time pressure, and honing his blind tasting skills. He remembers being tasked with describing one particular set of blind wines, which turned out to be Bulgarian…

10. 495: Steve Doerner and the Burgundian Bicyclists

    13 november 2023 · 2 uur 19 min

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    Steve Doerner is Winemaker Emeritus at Cristom Vineyards in Oregon. Lees meer

    Steve discusses his shift from being a Biochemistry Major at UC Davis in the mid-1970s to his first Job working for Josh Jensen at Calera Wine Company. Steve arrived at Calera for the 1978 harvest, the first vintage for Pinot Noir at Calera. Josh had begun making wine at Calera in 1975, first planting a Pinot Noir vineyard in 1974. Josh hired Steve after a blind tasting test that included tasting a La Tâche. Steve worked at Calera for a total of 14 years. During that period of time, Steve met some of Josh's peer/friend group in Burgundy, a circle of people that included Jacques Seysses of Domaine Dujac.

    Steve recalls his early years working at Calera in its limited facilities, working highly physical harvests that left him questioning if this was really the career path for him. He talks about his early days tasting wine, mostly Zinfandel from California. He also talks about utilizing different fermenting techniques in response to certain winemaking tools, and his growing knowledge of the techniques being implemented in Burgundy by the likes of Jacques Seysses and others. Steve comes to the conclusion that in California in the 1980s, Pinot Noir was often treated like Cabernet in the wineries. He also concluded that this was problematic, and began teasing out the nuances of practical meaning from adages he heard in Burgundy.

    A serious accident left Steve questioning his relationship to his job, but his perception of his worked changed after his first trip to Burgundy. Steve encountered Jacques Seysses as an outsider to Burgundy who was actively experimenting with different ways of doing things with his winemaking. Steve developed a friendship with Christophe Morin, who eventually worked for many years at Domaine Dujac, and who later died in a motorcycle accident

    Although Calera was in an isolated location, Steve tasted fairly regularly with other top American vintners, including Dick Graff of Cha…

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