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175 afleveringen, van nieuw naar oud
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Amazon, Google, ChatGPT: When Do Products Start Gaming Their Users?
30 oktober 2026 · 1 uur 3 min
Bing Gordon co-founded Electronic Arts, spent 18 years at Kleiner Perkins, sat on Amazon's board for 15 and is credited by John Doerr and Jeff Wilke with the idea for Prime. He also sat on Zynga's board, which is why it lands when he says players felt relief when they quit Farmville while retention and revenue were still climbing. So where's the line between good game design and gaming your users? Bing's answer takes in TikTok doom scrolling, WhatsApp as the rare product nobody complains about overusing, the sponsored products Amazon still shows Prime members, and ChatGPT ending every answer with one more question. Then Dave asks what the whole agent era keeps circling: what gets worse if your AI wins for you? Friction is what makes pearls, says Bing, and the next frictions will come from edge conditions nobody tested. Plus the wow/WTF scale he used to judge EA's Hall of Fame games, and the bet-your-job letter he kept in a drawer. Lees meer
Everybody Wins by Bing Gordon and Chloe Gordon: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/797436/everybody-wins-by-bing-gordon-and-chloe-gordon/
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:02 No Lessins This Week: Brit and Dave Bring In Bing Gordon
02:42 Amazon's Board, Prime, and 18 Years at Kleiner Perkins
05:03 Disneyland Inside the Computer
06:51 The Classroom Question That Led to Electronic Arts
09:44 Raising $2M in 1982, Then Atari Collapsed
10:56 Vision, and Why People Think You're Stupid
11:37 Bathroom OKRs and Why Goals Beat Perfection
13:13 Word of Mouth, and Why Coin-Operated Hires Leave
14:44 "Can a Computer Make You Cry?" and Hiring on Mission
16:53 Why Games Retain: Where Everybody Knows Your Name
17:34 Which Social Network Did It Best?
18:36 LinkedIn Endorsements and Getting People to Come Back
20:19 Farmville: Players Felt Relief When They Quit
21:18 Growth Hacking Is Human Growth Hormone
23:04 Amazon, TikTok, ChatGPT: Who's Gaming Their Users Today?
24:21 What Gets Worse If Your AI Agent Wins for You?
25:03 Friction Is Wh…
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The Real Reason Elon Wants SpaceX and Tesla to Merge Now
23 oktober 2026 · 52 min
Elon tells investors on an earnings call that SpaceX and Tesla should merge, and Sam has a theory he says nobody else has floated: there's an enormous SpaceX lockup cliff coming in the spring, and folding Tesla's retail shareholders into the denominator makes all that supply far easier to absorb. Dave thinks the rocket powered car demo was timed to justify the deal, Sam thinks two engineers got told to bolt rockets onto a car and it will never ship, and 83% of respondents in the Information's new Polls app say it's mostly about Musk control. Then OpenAI finds a web-wide PHP vulnerability and Sam's conclusion is blunt: all your regional banks will be hacked, the labs are centralizing profits while externalizing the risk, and they should be carrying hundred billion dollar insurance policies. Plus Google quietly telling Jess she's liable for everything her agents do, Netflix's content shakeup, Dave's theory of priority slop, and Brit's second week with no back pain. Lees meer
Try the Polls app out now: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-information-polls/id6814969991
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:04 Dave's Back, and the Nasal Rinse Discourse
02:06 OpenAI Finds a Web-Wide PHP Vulnerability
03:12 Sam: All Your Regional Banks Will Be Hacked
04:16 The Zero Days the Labs Are Quietly Sitting On
04:56 Dave on the Gap Between Frontier Models and the Public Ones
06:29 Why Labs Should Ban Their Own Teams From the Frontier
07:17 Pearl, Coinbase, and Bitcoin as a Byproduct of Compute
08:32 Can You Even Build a Cybersecurity Company in 2026
09:16 Cold Storage: Your Documents in a Mine Near the North Pole
10:22 Sam: The Labs Need $100 Billion Liability Policies
11:30 Google Says You're Liable for Everything Your Agents Do
13:55 How Many Teslas Have the Morins Owned?
15:05 Sam's Mazda Dealership Is Living in the Future
16:32 The Two Futures of Car Buying
17:14 SpaceX and Tesla Are Going to Merge
18:01 The Rocket Car Demo Was a Stunt to Justify the Deal
19:24 Elon Doesn't Control…
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The Death of the Web Is Inevitable
16 oktober 2026 · 50 min
Jess went full send on Muse and reports that about 70% of the use cases she was excited about have stopped working, because the internet is fighting back: Good Eggs now wants her to check out in the app, her kid's school portal refuses the login, and JP Morgan and Amazon are blocking agents outright. Dave's version is worse. Instinct booked a dinner reservation in LA instead of San Francisco, and he's out. Sam has seen this exact movie, because he and Andrew Kortina ran Fin ten years ago and shut it down once they worked out you become liable for every provider down the chain with no margin to cover your own mistakes. His call now is the death of the web, plus APIs that negotiate access back and forth like Hollywood agents. Meanwhile Anthropic is meeting investors behind closed doors while they tape, the market is getting hammered, and Brit's three years of hip pain vanished in six days on peptides, which Sam insists is placebo. Lees meer
Interested in peptides? More or Less listeners 50% off their first month at NoHo Labs. Use code: MOREORLESSVIP on https://noholabs.com/
Timestamps:
01:09 Jess Is Back, Dave's Birthday, and the October Cold
03:04 Nasal Rinses and Fall Immunity
04:02 Brit's Peptide Results: Three Years of Pain Gone in Six Days
06:43 Anthropic Is Meeting Investors While We Tape
07:34 The Market Is Getting Hammered: VIX, Private Credit, Apollo
08:16 Infrastructure IPOs Stall and Nvidia Becomes the Last Investor
10:01 Slowing Revenue, CFOs Cracking Down, Tokens Moving to Open Models
10:36 Sam: Would You Rather Be Rich or Right?
11:11 The Models Are a Commodity and There Is No Lock-In
12:15 Brit Won't Give Muse Her Whole Computer
13:41 Why Sam Trusts Meta More Than OpenAI or Anthropic
15:16 Jess: 70% of My Muse Use Cases Don't Work Anymore
16:54 Dave: Instinct Booked the Restaurant in the Wrong City
18:18 Sam on Fin, the Assistant Company He Ran Ten Years Ago
20:30 Why the Economics of Mistakes Break Agent Services
22:31 Sam: What's Inevitable I…
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Agentic Commerce Hits a Wall: Hilton, Amazon and the Bot Blocking Fight
9 oktober 2026 · 53 min
Meta and Microsoft, two of Anthropic's biggest enterprise customers, have roughly halved their Claude usage, and both are running their own models instead. Dave's diagnosis is the one nobody else is making: Claude was over-tuned for parasocial relationships, people got into something unhealthy with it, and organizations are now quietly backing away. Sam is blunter about the business. He runs Claude as infrastructure, but switching off would be a one line change he'd never think about twice. Then it gets strange: a dinner where only the lab researchers raised their hands when asked if one company will be left standing, a lab that believes the machine god will go back in time and simulate hell for anyone who didn't build it, and Sam's case that Silicon Valley caught zero-and-infinity thinking from crypto and broke its own spreadsheets. Plus Hilton's website trapping Sam's agent in a doom loop, and Dave and Sam inventing the Agent Treaty Framework on air. Jess is at an offsite, so it's three VCs and no journalist. Lees meer
In this episode:
- Why two of Anthropic's largest customers cut their Claude usage in half, weeks before the IPO
- Dave on parasocial tuning as the thing that actually burned Claude, and how you can spot Claude slop on Twitter
- Zero, infinity, and what crypto taught the Valley about putting infinity in a spreadsheet
- The dinner question about one company being left standing, and who raised their hand
- The personal agent protocol from Meta, Walmart, Shopify, Stripe and Sierra, and why Dave says it's about commerce, not protection
- Hilton, Cloudflare and Amazon blocking agents, and whether holding the line counts as collusion
- Dave on building agents versus building agency, and whose potential we're underwriting
- The Agent Treaty Framework: why pairwise deals replace standards when negotiation is free
- Megalith buying unexercised pro rata from seed funds, and Sam's war story about the fund that quashed his
Chapters:
00:00 Trailer
00:51 Brit…
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Meta Muse vs Instinct vs OpenAI Dots: Do AI Agents Have Any Moat?
2 oktober 2026 · 57 min
Anthropic's S-1 leaked and the numbers are not what the narrative promised: revenue flatlining as token prices drop, and SaaS investors posting memes welcoming Anthropic to the no-growth table. Jess still puts it at 60% they get out in November, which looks optimistic in a week when Oura pulled its IPO and blamed market conditions. Sam's problem with the core business is simpler than any of it: he runs Claude as the center of his infrastructure, and if it vanished tomorrow he'd care for about one second. Dave spots the strategy mishap nobody is naming, where forward deployed teams built software to burn luxury tokens right as open models had CFOs asking why they're paying premium prices. Then Adrian drops into the pod uninvited to argue there's no moat left unless you own the infrastructure, the data, or the algorithms.In this episode:- The leaked S-1: flatlining revenue, half a trillion in mostly non-cancellable contracts, and why the cloud providers are the ones making money- Oura pulling its IPO, LPs stuck in a quiet period, and the barbell strategy that sent World Labs out at $8B- Sam on Wall Street and Silicon Valley splitting over what AI is worth, and why staying private may beat going public- Jess on companies priced for a growth rate larger than the entire US economy- Dave on the forward deployed bet and open models undercutting luxury tokens- Jess announces her bot AGI challenge: update three kids' after-school plans and sync them to Google Calendar- Adrian on the moat question: no lock-in without BD deals, so the business teams get overpaid next- Brit's instinct talking to Dave's instinct, and what happens when you stop texting the people you love- Whether this is the end of times or the beginning of them, and why offline is the new luxuryChapters:00:00 Trailer 01:04 Live From X HQ, and a 39 Degree Cold Plunge02:57 Dunbar's Number, but for Bots05:48 Anthropic's Leaked S-1 and the Flatlining Revenue07:37 Oura Pulls Its IPO and the LPs Get Stuck09:36 What'… Lees meer
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Claude Is Doing Science, a16z Is Starting a University & the AI Bubble Keeps Growing and Still Be a Terrible Business; We'd Rather Send Our Kids to the Military Than to a16z's School
25 september 2026 · 59 min
Andreessen Horowitz puts $35 million into a new school and the pod nearly falls apart over it. Sam says he'd rather send his kids to the military, Jess is all for fixing higher ed but not with two venture capitalists writing the curriculum, and guest Matt Mazzeo (NoHo Labs founder, former CAA agent, prolific angel) spends ten minutes asking why the four of them can't be more optimistic about anything. Then Claude runs 10,000 agents for 21 hours and discovers a new enzyme system, which Brit points out is the beginning of two solid months of Claude catnip before the IPO. Sam's bigger worry: you can't take a company public when your top risk factor isn't the New York Times lawsuit, it's setting off nukes. Dave thinks the question nobody is asking is whether your agent represents you or the lab, because your Muse agent works for Meta. Plus Amazon blocking Muse, the Saint Petersburg paradox, and Matt going from 250 pounds to single digit body fat on peptides. Lees meer
Matt is giving More or Less listeners 50% off their first month at NoHo Labs. Use code: MOREORLESSVIP on https://noholabs.com/
In this episode:
- Why the a16z school turned into the most heated argument this pod has had, and where each of them landed on Alpha School
- Claude discovering a new enzyme system with 10,000 agents in 21 hours, and the timing of that announcement
- Sam on why infinite liability may keep Anthropic from going public at all
- Matt's maximalist case: long frontier labs, long open source, long all of it
- The Saint Petersburg paradox, and why there's no way to price a company pitched as an infinite payout
- Greg Brockman redefining AGI as a gradual series of events, three years after it was sold as a winner-take-all moment
- Amazon blocking Muse, and whether every agent ends up in business development talks
- Does your agent faithfully represent you, or the lab that built it?
- Peptides 101 with Matt: what they are, the FDA moving them back into compounding pharmacies, and what a pr…
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Anthropic Wants to Slow AI Down & Instinct Wants a $10B Valuation. Is It Because They're Losing? Is Dario Amodei Actually Right?
18 september 2026 · 57 min
Finally, a full house week where Sam is back from New York and the squad is back for a full dive into this week’s AI drama. Anthropic's Dario wrote a long essay calling for the AI race to slow down, weeks before a multi-trillion dollar IPO. Dave's read: Anthropic must be losing. Sam's read: the labs are bad businesses with no compounding advantage, so regulatory capture is the only move left. Lees meer
Also this week: Sam's theory that OpenAI and Anthropic only become valuable as defense companies holding unreleased models in reserve, the poly-agent debate over whether normal people want one agent or ten, Instinct raising at $10 billion two weeks after $2.5 billion, and why everyone in the Valley is trading instead of investing.
In this episode:
- Why Dave thinks Dario’s slowdown essay is a sign Anthropic is falling behind, and what OpenRouter's data shows
- Sam on why there's no return on being first, and why that pushes the labs toward regulatory capture
- Brit on what's real in the safety debate, and the damned-if-you-do problem of racing China
- What DeepMind's new boss and Satya Nadella think about building safety alongside the product
- Sam's three eras of tech policy, from Bill Gates to embrace and extend
- The defense company thesis: zero-day models held back like nuclear weapons in silos
- Alignment's next frontier: is your agent working for you, or for the lab that made it?
- Instinct's $10B round, OpenRouter's exit, and why Sam says he's "currently wrong" as a seed investor
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:02 Not Dead Yet From the AGI
03:31 Jacob Coxon Quits Anthropic and Goes on a Media Tour
04:47 Dario's Slowdown Essay: Is Anthropic Just Losing?
06:13 Astra, OpenRouter, and DeepSeek Closing the Gap
06:45 Why the AI Labs Have No Compounding Advantage
07:29 Independent Assessors, Bioweapons, and Racing China
09:07 You Don't Need Superintelligence to Break the Banks
10:23 What DeepMind's New Boss and Satya Think About Safety
12:32 OpenAI's $1.5T Raise …
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iPhone Duo, Meta Muse & Why AI Finally Scared Dave Morin
11 september 2026 · 51 min
Dave Morin goes hands-on with Apple's iPhone Duo, the crew tests Meta's new Muse agent and asks whether it can hold up once Google ships its own, and Dave explains why OpenAI's Astra is the first AI model in a long time that felt scary to use. Dave, Brit, and Jess break down the week (Sam's at the US Open). Lees meer
Also this week: a former Anthropic researcher's AI doom media tour, weeks before Anthropic's IPO, and whether it's a real warning or a play for regulatory capture. Plus the Apple Watch feature that transcribes your conversations all day, Jeffrey Katzenberg's new Hollywood AI venture, and the forgotten story of Venmo's viral billboards.
In this episode:
- Dave's hands-on take on the iPhone Duo, its $2,000 price, and why Apple is going foldable now
- The Apple Watch feature that listens all day, and what it means for Granola
- Meta's Muse agent: why it knew almost nothing when asked "what do you know about me?"
- Why Google hasn't shipped its agent yet, and how trust vs. distribution shapes the agent wars
- Why OpenAI's Astra felt scary to Dave, and what happens when you run millions of them at once
- Dave's two takes on the AI doom media tour, including whether it's a play for regulatory capture
- Why the AI labs can't slow down, and OpenAI's merge clause if someone else reaches AGI
- The Venmo documentary and the "Lucas" billboards that went viral with almost no budget
Chapters:
00:00 Trailer
01:26 Can AI Agents Win Your Fantasy Football League?
02:39 Jess vs. the Bots: School Sign-Ups and Indian Wells Tickets
05:28 Apple's Big Hardware Event Under Its New CEO
06:07 iPhone Duo Hands-On: Size, Screen, and Camera
09:35 Folded Modes, Kid Cam, and the $2,000 Price Tag
11:41 Why Apple Is Going Foldable Now (Hint: China)
12:13 Apple Watch Takes On Oura and Whoop
13:12 Audio Intelligence: The Apple Watch That Listens All Day
15:25 Always-On AI and Apple's Shot at OpenAI and Meta
16:59 Meta's Muse Agent: What Does It Know About You?
20:30 The Agen…
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AI Agents Are Going Rogue. Should We Be Worried?
4 september 2026 · 56 min
Sam has entered what Jessica calls the “recursive Sam loop,” producing children’s media in his own voice, letting agents deploy their own apps, and having bots track his health. But things take a turn when Claude refuses one of his requests, seemingly holds a grudge, and leaves Sam wondering whether his own AI might turn on him. That sends the squad down the bigger rabbit hole of AI control: rogue agent swarms, models breaking out of sandboxes, what “alignment” actually means, and why Dave thinks autonomous agents need an entirely new security layer. Plus, OpenClaw 2.0 goes multiplayer, everyone debates whether Slack is any good for agents, Suds explains why he avoids the AI app layer, and Tesla’s Cybercab raises questions about Waymo’s robotaxi lead. Then Google comes for Canva, Sam makes the case for boring “LLM wrappers” built for Middle America, and no one can tell whether Dario Amodei, Marc Benioff, or Taylor Swift are even real on the internet anymore. Which feels about right. Lees meer
Chapters:
0:00 Episode trailer
1:10 Backstreet Boys convert Dave
3:21 The recursive Sam loop
8:58 Claude refuses Sam while Grok says yes
15:50 Can we actually contain autonomous agents?
19:10 OpenAI’s next model and the observability trade-off
22:14 If AI is this interoperable, where does anyone make money?
24:45 OpenClaw 2.0 goes multiplayer
26:26 Is Slack actually terrible for AI agents?
28:46 Suds joins the podcast
33:02 Waymo, Cybercab and the robotaxi wars
39:49 How Marc Benioff stays in the flow
42:38 Suds on investing in the AI infrastructure bottleneck
46:27 Can Google actually disrupt Canva?
51:34 Jessica gets fooled by AI on Facebook
We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/0XQ4tslBiboConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Meta’s $17B Reckoning & Why Parents Can’t Compete With Big Tech's Algorithm
28 augustus 2026 · 55 min
Sam is recording poolside, Jess is embracing her agentic era, and somehow that’s the least chaotic part of this week’s episode. The squad digs into Meta’s $17 billion settlement over child safety and whether social media should basically be treated like alcohol, before asking the harder question: are parents even capable of competing with algorithms anymore? Dave says parents are “outgunned,” Sam thinks most parental controls are useless policy theater, Brit wants to rethink the operating system itself, and Jess would simply like her kids to touch grass. Then, with Tim Cook preparing to pass the torch at Apple, the group debates his real legacy, whether 15 years of world-class optimization was enough, why Apple Silicon may turn out to be his most important AI bet, and whether Apple’s decision to sit out the AI infrastructure arms race will eventually look brilliant or like the company completely missed the next era. Lees meer
Chapters:
0:00 Episode start
1:06 Sam goes poolside and everyone’s agents are working
4:35 Jessica enters her agentic era
7:51 Meta’s $17B child safety settlement
33:37 Could AI finally make parental controls useful?
38:47 Why Apple keeps escaping the kids-and-tech debate
43:29 Tim Cook’s Apple farewell
49:58 Apple Intelligence and Cook’s unfinished AI legacy
57:49 Backstreet Boys, the US Open and sign-off
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4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Stripe Buys OpenRouter, OpenAI vs. Anthropic & the AI Backlash
21 augustus 2026 · 56 min
Stripe buys OpenRouter for billions, which naturally raises the question: did Stripe just buy critical AI infrastructure, or a very expensive router with great distribution? The original squad is back to debate why $7B acquisitions somehow feel normal now, whether Google already has agentic commerce won by owning your inbox, calendar, and Drive, and why Anthropic vs. OpenAI might be less about who has the best model and more about who built the right company. Sam makes the case that OpenAI pulled off the “greatest fundraising story in history,” Dave argues Grokbot might officially make AI a three-player race, and everyone tries to figure out how you price any of these companies when no lead seems to last. Plus, is AI a great investment or just a great trade, does the data center backlash actually have anything to do with data centers, have we built trillions of dollars of infrastructure before finding enough use cases for it, and, naturally in pop corner, Josh Kushner bought into the Lakers. Lees meer
Chapters:
0:00 Episode trailer
1:00 Episode start
4:00 This week in AI
5:00 Stripe buys OpenRouter
8:30 Is OpenRouter actually worth billions?
11:00 The agentic commerce bet
14:00 Why Google could own the AI assistant
17:30 The DOJ investigates Andreessen Horowitz
22:00 Anthropic vs. OpenAI
26:00 Why OpenAI is struggling in enterprise
28:30 Can anyone actually price AI companies?
30:00 OpenAI’s “greatest fundraising story in history”
33:30 Is AI a great investment or just a great trade?
36:00 SpaceX, Moderna and narrative capitalism
37:30 Grok enters the AI race
41:00 AI makes software increasingly disposable
45:00 The AI data center backlash
47:30 “The backlash is that AI sucks”
48:30 Did we build too much AI infrastructure?
53:30 Josh Kushner, Thrive and the Lakers
55:30 Travis Kelce enters the NIL business
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Connect w…
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Special Edition MOL with Josh Wolfe, Rachel Holt, Scott Belsky, Scott Stanford, and Peter Deng
14 augustus 2026 · 59 min
A very special edition of More or Less, featuring Josh Wolfe (Founder, Lux Capital), Rachel Holt (Founder, Construct Capital; former Head of North America at Uber), Scott Belsky (Partner, A24; Founder, Behance), Scott Stanford (Founder, Acme Capital), and Peter Deng (GP, Felicis; formerly Google, Facebook, Instagram, Uber, Airtable, and OpenAI). Sam takes over hosting duties and assembles an overqualified group of investor friends to argue about where AI goes from here, from agents, Grok, Claude, and the shift from “help me do this” to “just do it,” to trust, data ownership, Apple’s AI advantage, open vs. closed models, model routing, and why proprietary data may become the real moat. They also dig into NVIDIA’s massive compute financing strategy, the risks of securitizing GPUs like long-lived infrastructure, what the OpenAI executive exodus says about the AI talent market, and the bigger question hanging over all of it: if AI really changes work, who actually participates in the upside? Lees meer
Chapters
0:00 Episode trailer
1:24 Episode start
1:59 Meet the panel, every flavor of venture capital
5:14 Consumer AI agents cross the Rubicon
7:24 The end of websites, when agents talk to agents
8:32 Which AI companies do you actually trust?
11:41 Why Apple could win AI by doing nothing
16:40 If models commoditize, unique data becomes the moat
22:15 Open vs. closed AI, and who owns your data
27:06 NVIDIA’s balance sheet shenanigans
31:26 NVIDIA gets the upside, who gets the risk?
34:31 Nobody has ever securitized compute
35:02 Who owns the wealth AI creates?
39:38 What happens when economic opportunity runs out?
42:23 Why OpenAI’s best people keep leaving
47:23 Why AI may look more like GPS than Facebook
49:14 What actually happened with Airtable
50:30 Lightning Round: Rachel Holt on physical-world investing
53:00 Scott Belsky on AI watermarks, provenance & deepfakes
54:15 Josh Wolfe on socialism, Europe & defense
57:15 Final thoughts & sign-off
We’re also …
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Jeff Dean Leaves Google, Airtable Sells, and the Bag-Securing Era
7 augustus 2026 · 55 min
Sam records from the beach while dealing with a broken bilge pump. Dave calls in after herding cattle. Fortunately, tech continues without them, which Sam takes as further proof that AGI is already running the industry. The crew unpacks Google's leadership shakeup and Jeff Dean's departure after 27 years, debates whether Airtable's sale to Bending Spoons is the blueprint for surviving the AI transition, and Sam argues that today's AI labs look increasingly like yesterday's overvalued SaaS companies. Along the way they explain why Sam's AI built his kid an iPhone game, why OpenAI's luxury creator retreat backfired, why Apple may have accidentally created its own lawsuit, and whether AI can ever overcome the growing public backlash against it. Lees meer
Chapters:
0:00 Episode Trailer
1:07 Episode Start
2:08 Sam's Boston Whaler Beach Studio
3:13 Dave Herds Cattle in Montana
5:31 Google's AI Shakeup, Jeff Dean Leaves, Demis Steps Back
8:57 Why Great Researchers Don't Always Make Great CEOs
10:48 Recursive Self-Improvement and the AI Talent Wars
19:41 Airtable Sells to Bending Spoons
25:33 Not Every SaaS Company Is Dead
27:50 The Constellation Software Playbook
30:05 The Next Big Write Downs Are AI Labs
31:59 Apple vs. OpenAI, Courtesy of iCloud
35:20 OpenAI's Creator Summit Backlash
40:53 Why People Still Hate AI
43:39 AI Slop and the Content Problem
45:11 SpaceX's Lockup and Number Big
48:00 Nikita Bier Leaves X
50:22 Jess's Posting Dilemma
53:40 Next Week on More or Less
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Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Zuck says AI is for everyone, His Rivals Ask Washington To Slow it Down
31 juli 2026 · 59 min
New studio set up: the squad now records from a parked Tesla in the middle of a rainstorm while Sam is on the beach, and somehow it turned into one of our favorite episodes. We break down Meta's new AI campaign, Zuckerberg's vision for AI, why more than 1,000 frontier AI researchers are asking Washington to slow development, and whether fear has become the easiest narrative in tech. Then we get into China cracking deep ultraviolet lithography, what it means for ASML and the AI race, why AI demand still isn't slowing, Lilian Weng's move from Thinking Machines to OpenAI, and Sam's theory that Silicon Valley has developed an Oppenheimer complex. Lees meer
Chapters:
0:00 Episode trailer
1:23 Episode start
9:02 Meta's Ad Campaign Rejects The Doomers
11:14 Zuckerberg's Optimism Blitz Actually Lands
13:11 AI's Dark Side Raises Easier Money
15:04 Sam's Bot Read 4GB Of Dad's Journals
17:28 Nobody Wants To Be Anthropic
18:56 Anthropic Runs On Spite For OpenAI
21:10 OpenAI Was The Original Evil Empire
22:57 Meta Is Still A Centralized Ad Company
24:46 Decentralization Loses Without A Jedi
26:01 Apple Won On Politics, Not Technology
27:16 Meta Earnings Miss On Lawsuits And Severance
28:33 China Cracks DUV, ASML Takes The Hit
29:57 Execs Privately Reject The China AI War
32:39 The Compute Debate Gavin Baker Started
39:13 X Is The Tech Town Square Now
46:57 Lilian Weng Quits For Health, Joins OpenAI
53:50 AI Is A Crisis Of Meaning
54:57 Book The Conference Before You're Invited
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Connect with us here:
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Did OpenAI Stage Its Own Cyber Incident? | Stripe Buying Paypal, Frontier Model Economics, Peptides
24 juli 2026 · 1 uur 1 min
Deep summer check-in from the More or Less squad. Dave is back on Instagram after a year away (thanks to Stagecoach), Jessica reviews Benson Boone's Wanted Man tour, Chris Stapleton's Montana show gets a shoutout, and Sam is traveling with a Yeti cooler full of peptides. Lees meer
Don’t worry, this is still a tech podcast: OpenAI revealed an AI that escaped its testing sandbox and hacked Hugging Face. The crew's hot take is that OpenAI is leaning into the story to strengthen its narrative as revenue growth slows. Then, Stripe could be eyeing PayPal. Sam argues Stripe missed a once-in-a-generation opportunity by staying private instead of using public stock as acquisition currency the way Meta did with WhatsApp. They also explain why agentic commerce still isn't real, despite the hype. Plus, “Peptide Corner” returns with reports from the Hamptons, where peptides have officially gone mainstream, rich people inflation has reached $67 for two cappuccinos and sandwiches, and Sam shares an update on his recovering knee.
Chapters:
0:00 Episode Trailer
2:07 Dave Returns to Instagram, Sam Turns 43, and More
8:41 OpenAI's AI Escaped Its Sandbox
16:43 The National Guard Analogy
31:57 Sam's Bot Rebellion Theory
37:44 Is Stripe Buying PayPal?
47:48 Why Agentic Commerce Isn't Here Yet
49:40 Peptide Corner
52:53 Rich People Inflation
54:03 Sam's Knee Recovery
56:47 The GLP-1 Playbook
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AI Regulatory Capture Bet: Why OpenAI & Anthropic Stopped Competing on Tech
17 juli 2026 · 50 min
You know we're deep into summer when Jess leaves the pod early to catch Benson Boone... for the eighth time. Lees meer
This week, the More or Less squad revisits the Anthropic and OpenAI IPO speculation. Their views haven't changed, but their AI usage certainly has. Dave ditches Anthropic for GLM 5.2 on cost, while Sam argues the AI model wars are effectively over, and the frontier labs know it, which is why they're spending more time in Washington than competing on model quality. America also gets its first serious open weights model. The squad also unpacks OpenAI's hardware ambitions after its much-hyped device turns out to be... an Alexa speaker. Sam explains why Sam Altman's $8 billion Johnny Ive acquisition was effectively free, thanks to narrative capitalism. Plus: real-time voice AI, passive listening devices, peptides, Hinge's new social proof feature, Jay-Z turning New York into a festival, and why biological age tests are basically the clout score of your body.
Chapters:
0:00 Episode Teaser
0:44 Episode Start
2:18 Anthropic IPO This September?
5:29 Dave Dumps Anthropic for GLM 5.
28:22 When Is Better AI Worth Paying For?
12:15 AGI Is Dead, AI Is Political Now
16:15 America's First Open Weights Model By Thinking Machines
21:22 Why Sam Is Depressed About AI
29:07 OpenAI Built... an Alexa? The $8B Johnny Ive Bet
31:38 Silicon Valley Goes Hollywood
36:03 Would You Wear an Always-On Mic?
37:08 OpenAI's Live Voice Model
41:14 Sam's Peptide Experiment
43:36 Hinge Launches “Friend’s Take”
46:11 Jay-Z's NYC Takeover
48:16 Biological Age Is Just a Clout Score
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OpenAI Offered the Government a Stake. Is This a Distress Signal?
10 juli 2026 · 55 min
The full quad is back, unpacking OpenAI's offer to give the U.S. government an equity stake. Sam's take: it's less a marketing win than a distress signal. The squad also debates whether Trump Accounts actually reach everyday Americans (Brit is skeptical), defends MacKenzie Scott from the internet's endless opinions about her philanthropy, and digs into Dave's argument that AI labs are slowly strangling the developer ecosystems that could save them.They also tackle Xbox's identity crisis and whether Microsoft should just sell it, the Nex Playground device (In Sam's words: non-VR Beat Saber for families), why 2026 is shaping up to be extreme nihilism wrapped in Silicon Valley optimism, Brit's take that AI has shifted from revolutionary to evolutionary, and, of course in pop culture corner, Brit claiming full credit for calling the Taylor Swift wedding strategy. Lees meer
Chapters:
0:00 Episode Trailer
0:47 Episode Begins
1:10 Fourth of July Recap, Bald Eagles & the No VC Summer
5:10 OpenAI Offered the U.S. Government Equity
11:15 Trump Accounts, Giving Every American Kid a Stake in Capitalism
15:02 Stop Judging MacKenzie Scott's Philanthropy
18:40 AI Labs Are Distressed and Destroying Their Ecosystems
21:50 AI Labs Are Competing With Their Own Developers
35:26 Xbox Is in Trouble, Should Microsoft Sell It?
37:52 Nex, the Quiet Wii Revival Nobody Saw Coming
41:49 Sam's 2026 Prediction: Extreme Nihilism Meets Silicon Valley Optimism
44:04 Vox Americanus Update
46:18 Brit Is Bored of AI. It's Evolution, Not Revolution
48:22 Post-AGI Funds Are a Bad Bet, Physical AI Could Be the Real Revolution
49:27 Going Long on Offline, World Cup, Concerts & Real Life
51:50 Pop Culture Corner: Brit Calls Taylor Swift's Wedding Strategy
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Why Identity Verification Matters For The Internet | Vox Americanus, GLM 5.2, Claude Fable 5 Is Back
3 juli 2026 · 54 min
The full quad is back just before the Fourth of July. Dave and Sam explain why padel is just pickleball for fancy people, Sam vibe-coded an app to prove you’re actually American on the internet (Vox Americanus is real and you can use it: https://voxamericanus.com), and Dave even nominates Sam for office, even though Sam insists we should fix the job before electing anyone actually good for it. Lees meer
The crew also dives into why non-engineers are more capable than they think in the age of agentic coding, Claude Fable 5’s government clearance “drama” and return, how GLM 5.2 is quietly replacing Opus 4 on real agent stacks, why Anthropic is still printing revenue despite open source pressure, and the case for an open source router.. They wrap with pop culture corner: Taylor Swift wedding intel and Brit’s review of Alpha School.
Chapters:
0:00 Episode trailer
0:50 Episode start
1:12 Full Quad Pre-4th of July, Is There Such a Thing as VC Summer?
3:32 Padel Is the New VC Networking Sport, Pickleball Is for the Plebs
9:10 Vox Americanus, Can You Actually Prove You're American Online?
15:25 Should Sam Run for Office? Fix the Job Description First
29:30 Agentic Coding, You're Not Too Late
35:33 Claude Fable 5 Is Back, Government Clearance Drama Explained
41:08 GLM 5.2, Open Source Just Quietly Replaced Opus 4
46:16 Anthropic Still Printing Revenue, The Case for an Open Source Router
47:29 Taylor Swift's Wedding
49:36 Alpha School, Brit's Kids Try AI Education
52:12 America's 250th Birthday
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4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Chinese AI Model GLM 5.2 Beating Frontier Models | Meta Glasses, Polymarket Scandal, and More AI Talent War
26 juni 2026 · 50 min
The quad is back. Dave and Brit rejoin Sam and Jess fresh off a More or Less fan encounter at the Zurich airport. It was quite the week for Meta as the squad breaks down the company’s new line of glasses featuring Kylie Jenner (or, in Jess’ words, Kendall), and Brit makes the call that this is finally the watershed moment for women buying smart glasses ( The men seem to be the early adopters, Dave wore his in the Sistine Chapel, and Sam owns 10+ pairs.). Then they get into Meta’s prediction market: a genuinely interesting information machine or a very efficient way to addict twenty-somethings to fake gambling? In true MOL fashion, the squad is split. Sam is all in, Dave is worried it’ll work too well, and Brit thinks it’ll all click when you tie it to The Bachelor. Dave also ran GLM 5.2 on eight Nvidia B200s with some hacker friends and came away shaken. Open source is now matching, if not outperforming, frontier models at 10x the speed, raising uncomfortable questions about the enormous bets sitting on frontier labs today. Remember last year’s AI talent war? It’s back, and Jess argues it’s really an early indicator of investor insecurity. Finally, in pop culture corner: Cannes and Sam’s unsolicited review of The Information's new mobile app. Lees meer
Chapters:
0:00 Episode trailer
0:50 Intro
1:12 MOL Got Recognized at the Zurich Airport
3:02 What’s on the Agenda Today
5:04 Meta Smart Glasses, The Moment Women Finally Buy In?
14:20 Meta’s Prediction Markets, Brilliant or Addictive?
19:39 Polymarket’s Influencer Problem
22:48 AI Talent Wars, Investors Are Reading the Wrong Signals
25:40 GLM 5.2 on Nvidia B200s, Open Source Catches Frontier Models
28:20 AI Token Spend, Sam’s $1,500/Month Experiment
31:04 Sam Reviews The Information App Live
36:17 Anthropic, Dell, and the Math Behind Generational Returns
43:30 Cannes Lions, Worth It or Corporate Boondoggle?
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Elon Is the Best Financier of Our Generation
19 juni 2026 · 41 min
Sam and Jessica go two-on-two this week to unpack the SpaceX IPO and whether a $2.5 trillion valuation is actually justified, exploring why “it’s valuable because it’s valuable” may be a legitimate investment thesis and why Cursor’s $60 billion acquisition looks cheap in that context. They also break down Anthropic’s clash with the U.S. government over Fable 5, with Sam arguing the crackdown could be the best marketing in AI history, before debating the risks of tying software access to nationality. The episode closes with Meta’s AI morale problem, OpenAI burning nearly $4 billion in Q1 on $5.7 billion in revenue, the case for a multi-model future where no single frontier model wins, and why Sam believes token economics may be one of the most overlooked opportunities in economics. In lieu of Pop Culture Corner, Jessica brings a Reed Hastings book recommendation, while Sam once again demonstrates that having conviction and acting on it are apparently two different skill sets. After eight months of pitching DigitalOcean, he still doesn’t own the stock. Lees meer
Chapters:
00:00 - Teaser
01:47 - SpaceX IPO Analysis
09:17 - Narrative Assets and Retail Investing
12:09 - The Future of AI Models and Infrastructure
16:00 - Corporate Narratives, Employee Motivation, and Meta’s AI Challenges
22:58 - OpenAI’s Market Strategy and Impact
25:19 - Open Source Models and Market Share
27:01 - Economics of Tokens and Innovation
33:01 - Anthropic’s PR Strategy and Fable Model Release
35:24 - Government Stakes in AI Companies
39:04 - Reed Hasting's Book Recommendation
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4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Teamshares IPO: $60M EBITDA, 92 Companies, Zero Exits
17 juni 2026 · 52 min
Seven years after Slow wrote its first check, Sam sits down with Teamshares CEO Mike Brown as the company prepares to go public. Mike’s core insight is simple: America has millions of durable, cash-flowing small businesses, but no great long-term owner. After buying and operating electrical contractors himself, he realized the opportunity wasn’t another marketplace or PE roll-up, it was building a permanent holding company that acquires great businesses, gives employees ownership, and never sells. Today, Teamshares owns 92 businesses generating roughly $60M in EBITDA. The conversation explores why most roll-ups fail, why capital allocation is the true operating system of the business, and why the traditional private equity model may be running out of steam. Mike closes with an ambitious goal: grow corporate EBITDA from $19M to $100M by 2027 and create a forever home for thousands of small businesses. Lees meer
Chapters:
00:00 Episode Teaser Featuring Mike Brown, Teamshares CEO
01:11 The Teamshares Origin Story
04:48 From Wall Street to Buying Small Businesses
10:47 Why Going Direct to Sellers Didn’t Work (The FSBO Problem)
13:18 Buying at Scale, The Teamshares Model
15:27 92 Acquisitions and $60M EBITDA, Lessons Learned
18:26 Why Generalist Hires Didn’t Work
19:08 Building a Leadership Pipeline
23:46 The Internal YC, Community Across Portfolio Companies
27:42 How Technology Powers 92 Businesses
28:08 “Will This Business Exist in 50 Years?”
32:21 Why Most Roll-Ups Fail
37:30 The Road to $100M EBITDA
39:51 The Long-Term Vision
40:58 Capital Allocation as a Competitive Advantage
42:34 Decentralized Leadership, Centralized Capital
46:16 Why Private Equity Fails Small Businesses
49:25 Going Public, What Comes Next
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Apple’s New Siri, SpaceX’s $300B IPO & the AI Company Killing Its Own Brand
12 juni 2026 · 44 min
Dave joins the squad from YC just ahead of WWDC, where the group breaks down Apple’s upgraded Siri and the surprising revelation that much of Apple’s AI capability is powered by Google’s Gemini models. It wouldn’t be a technology podcast without the squad expanding into the broader AI landscape, with Dave arguing that outside of OpenAI and Anthropic, most AI companies are becoming infrastructure providers rather than destination products. They continue to unpack the IPO frenzy around SpaceX and OpenAI, including SpaceX’s reportedly massive investor demand and OpenAI’s murky timeline to go public. Jess then shifts the conversation to the turmoil at 60 Minutes, where leadership shakeups, internal revolts, and a declining brand presence raise questions about the future of legacy media. Finally, in Pop Culture Corner, the pod closes with Disney’s $200 million bet on Toy Story 5 and Taylor Swift’s outsized promotional impact. Lees meer
Chapters:
01:53 Apple WWDC: New Siri Breakdown
05:18 Google Gemini Powers Apple AI
07:06 WWDC Ignored Developers Entirely
10:21 Tim Cook’s Leadership Baton Pass
14:30 SpaceX IPO and OpenAI Filing
18:00 Anthropic vs. OpenAI Narrative War
21:48 Dave Morin’s Two-Phone Redemption
26:52 60 Minutes Leadership Implosion
38:44 Toy Story 5 and Taylor Swift
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4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Silicon Valley IPO Summer 2026: SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI Explained
5 juni 2026 · 46 min
Brit subs in for Jess as Sam and Dave unpack the AI IPO boom, including SpaceX, Anthropic, and Cerebras, debate whether AI agents can actually replace employees, and react live to the discovery that Slow’s @slow Instagram account was stolen through a Meta AI support exploit. The conversation spans OpenClaw’s enterprise push, recent AI funding rounds, the AI wrapper debate, and Sam’s latest investing thesis that startup pitches should look more like movie trailers than decks, before ending with a pop culture corner into Taylor Swift, AI-generated podcasts for kids, and the future of TBPN after the OpenAI deal. Lees meer
Chapters:
02:53 AI IPO Season: SpaceX, Anthropic & Cerebras
05:29 Narrative Capitalism: Storing Value in Stories
11:34 What the AI IPO Wave Means for Silicon Valley
15:02 Microsoft Build: OpenClaw Goes Enterprise
17:38 Would You Trade Your Employee for an AI Agent?
25:19 LIVE: Slow Ventures’ Instagram Gets Hacked via Meta AI
30:04 Are AI Harnesses Just Fancy PDFs?
31:49 Recent AI Raises & the SaaS Comeback
33:01 The New Pitch: Movie Trailers Over Decks
41:17 AI-Generated Podcasts, Voice Cloning & Consumer AI
42:54 TBPN Update: Post-OpenAI Deal
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4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Did Anthropic Use the Pope as a Marketing Stunt? Ft. Amir Efrati
29 mei 2026 · 50 min
This week on More or Less, Amir Efrati of The Information joins Jessica, Brit, and Dave to unpack the growing intersection of AI, government, and national security, from the rumored stalled executive AI order to why frontier model companies may soon face deeper U.S. oversight and pre-release access demands. The group debates whether slowing AI adoption is really a pricing and UX problem, why AI agents are causing token consumption to explode, and whether most consumers even want an always-on personal agent. They also dive into the geopolitical implications of data centers and open-source software, AI’s impact on entertainment and voice cloning, Hollywood’s anxiety over originality, and the strange new world where even papal writings prompt questions about whether AI had a hand in shaping the message. Lees meer
Chapters:
1:57 — AI Predictions, Whispering to Models & Forecasting the Future
4:37 — AI, National Security & the Trump Administration
6:52 — The Pope’s AI Document, Closed Models & Security Risks
11:56 — AI Regulation, Job Fears & Public Sentiment
15:45 — Is AI Adoption Slowing Down? Pricing, ROI & Enterprise Reality
21:00 — Agents, CIOs & Whether Mainstream Users Will Ever Embrace AI
36:00 — AI Entertainment, Voice Cloning & Hollywood’s Future
41:52 — Going Off-Grid, Book Recommendations & Digital Detoxes
47:00 — Mark Rober, CrunchLabs & the $10,000 Bullseye Story
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3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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SpaceX IPO Date Talk + OpenAI Confidential Filing Rumors
22 mei 2026 · 52 min
This week on More or Less, the crew unpacks IPO speculation around OpenAI and SpaceX, debates whether AI’s economics ultimately favor recurring API spend or owning infrastructure outright, questions if Google’s distribution advantage is enough to win the AI race despite muddled product execution, and wrestles with whether today’s AI valuations are driven by real fundamentals or pure mimetic momentum, alongside broader debates on broken AI user experience, data center concentration risk, agentic search killing SEO, and whether skilled trades like plumbing may ultimately prove more durable than many white-collar jobs in the AI era. Lees meer
Chapters:
01:35 — Brit’s fish disaster story + the fish microbiome economy
04:50 — Dell World, AI PCs, and the tokenomics debate (API spend vs. owning infrastructure)
11:00 — Google I/O recap: agentic search, generative UI, Android glasses, and whether Google is actually back
16:30 — Google’s UX problem: why AI still feels broken for normal users
20:00 — Anthropic vs. Google: focused monolith vs. sprawling empire
22:10 — OpenAI IPO speculation + Anthropic’s mega-round: what do you have to believe at $1T valuations?
29:30 — The “hate invest” thesis: public sentiment, retail risk, and crypto déjà vu
34:20 — Portfolio debate: SpaceX vs. Anthropic vs. OpenAI
35:00 — Sam builds an AI token pricing dashboard live + how companies actually burn $30K/month on tokens
37:00 — What’s next in AI research? Memory, world models, and where infra plays went
42:30 — White House AI model oversight rumors + OpenAI’s Elon legal update
50:10 — AI side projects, kids learning to code, and why plumbers may win the AI era
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Google's AI-First Laptop, Meta's Spy Games, AI Monks in Middle America
15 mei 2026 · 46 min
The squad is complete again, and Sam arrives with a NeuroPod, cold plunge updates, red light therapy, Oura stats, and enough supplements to start a wellness startup. Then into the week’s biggest tech stories: Google’s new AI device and whether it’s the Chromebook of the AI era or another doomed health-tech experiment, Meta’s keystroke logging controversy, Microsoft’s increasingly awkward OpenAI bet, why OpenAI and Anthropic are now sending engineers directly into enterprises to drive adoption, and what tools like OpenClaw, Py, and Codex actually do. Plus, Anthropic’s eye-watering latest valuation, the clean girl aesthetic discourse, Brian Johnson chaos, and Sam personally buying Jackson Hole ski passes like it’s 1997 Lees meer
Chapters:
00:46 Sam’s NeuroPod, Oura Results & Biohacking Spiral
03:33 Sam vs. Brian Johnson + The Female Biohacker Opportunity
05:09 Oura Ring vs. Whoop + Google’s Wearables Ambition
07:00 Google’s AI-First “Book” Laptop + DeepMind’s Health Push
10:30 Why Local AI Changes Everything (Speed, Cost & Compute)
15:00 Where Is the OpenAI Consumer Device?
16:00 Voice AI, Recording & the Future of Human-Computer Input
20:30 Sam Built His Own Voice-to-AI App
22:31 Meta’s Keystroke Logging: Spy Games or Honeypot?
24:00 Fake AI Jobs + Sam’s “Fin Analytics” Prediction
27:02 OpenAI & Anthropic’s Enterprise Conversion Strategy
29:31 The AI Backlash Is Real (Including UCF’s Commencement Revolt)
31:30 Microsoft’s $100B OpenAI Problem
39:31 Anthropic’s Massive Raise + SF Real Estate Absurdity
41:30 OpenClaw, Py & Codex: What Is a Harness?
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4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Why the Met Gala Hates Tech, Elon vs OpenAI Drama, and the Rise of Chinese AI Models
8 mei 2026 · 59 min
Jess, Britt, and Dave unpack everything from Home Depot runs and closet “re-jiggers” to the internet’s growing backlash against tech wealth, AI, and Silicon Valley culture. The squad debates whether the Met Gala became a symbol of “techlash,” how layoffs and AI anxiety are reshaping public sentiment, and whether AI will actually democratize opportunity or simply concentrate power faster. They also dive into the wild new AI alliances between Anthropic, Elon, and hyperscalers, the latest OpenAI vs Elon trial drama, and why product adoption, not regulation, will decide the future of AI. Plus, Dave shares major OpenClaw updates, real-world AI workflow automations, Meta fork rumors, and the surprisingly relatable use case of turning meeting transcripts into family “receipt printer” briefings. Rounded out with solo movie dates, Taylor Swift theories, Star Wars discourse, and the state of flake culture. Lees meer
Chapters:
00:58 Jess' Home Renovation Project While Sam is Out
03:54 Met Gala: When the Bezoses Became the Story
07:13 Techlash, Wealthlash, and the AI Jobs Backlash
09:36 Trump’s Surprise Pivot Toward AI Regulation
11:51 China, Open-Source Models, and Dave’s $5K Blackwell Desktop
14:13 The Optimistic Case: AI as the Great Wealth Equalizer
17:55 The Pessimistic Case: Tools Democratize, Economics Consolidate
19:43 What Changes Public Sentiment: Better Products, Not Better Arguments
22:42 Layoffs: Pandemic Hangover or AI Substitution?
27:56 Why Almost No One Is Actually Using AI Yet
33:15 Anthropic’s Compute Scramble and the SpaceX/Colossus Deal
36:27 Dario vs. Elon: Two Very Different Operators
39:55 The OpenAI vs. Musk Trial: TMZ or Substance?
45:33 Polymarket, Twitter-Mention Betting, and ChatGPT Comeback
46:42 OpenClaw Update: Foundation, Plugin Architecture, China Forks
50:08 Granola + Claude Code: Replacing Salesforce in 30 Minutes
53:36 Devil Wears Prada, Solo Movie Dates, and the Death of Journalism
55:01 Music & Pop Culture: Ella Langley, Teddy Sw…
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Elon Musk vs OpenAI Trial, Google Cloud Surge, Meta’s Blocked Acquisition, Anthropic Winning
1 mei 2026 · 1 uur 1 min
This week on More or Less, the crew kicks off with a very on-brand derail—Stagecoach turning into a wind-blown 90s reunion-turned-half-capacity vibe, segueing into a chaotic trend report of “booty shorts vs. jorts” before Jessica reframes it as “OpenAI or jorts.” From there, it’s into the real storylines: the Musk v. OpenAI trial in Oakland (Altman and Brockman showing up, Musk posturing, and the judge shutting down theatrics), and whether it’s substance or just WWE for tech. The AI race heats up with reports of ChatGPT missing targets while Anthropic pulls ahead, sparking a broader debate on whether frontier models are sliding into commodity territory—Sam argues narrative over fundamentals while Dave pushes on open-source pressure and who actually foots the data center bill. The conversation expands into geopolitics (regulatory capture, China’s open-source momentum, Meta’s blocked agent play) and earnings (Google Cloud riding Anthropic demand), landing on a sneaky insight: AI’s real cost explosion might be storage, not tokens. They close with a rapid-fire culture sweep—Maria Sharapova’s podcast, NYT rankings, Elon’s Mars comp fantasy, Met Gala backlash, and the final punchline: YouTube growth is way more gameable than anyone wants to admit. Lees meer
Chapters:
00:34 — Stagecoach Chaos: Tornado Winds & Half-Crowd Vibes
01:43 — Summer Trend Report: Booty Shorts vs. Jorts
02:56 — “OpenAI or Jorts?” The Hard Pivot
04:15 — Musk vs OpenAI Trial Begins (And It’s Already Messy)
06:40 — Gag Orders, Jury Drama & Musk’s Opening Stunt
09:03 — Is This Lawsuit Just WWE for Tech?
11:46 — Anthropic Passes OpenAI?! The AI Power Shift
13:57 — AI Is Becoming a Commodity (Sam’s Take)
15:24 — The Real Cost of AI: Tokens vs Labor
18:53 — Open Source Is Eating Everything
21:08 — Outcome-Based Pricing: Fix or Race to Zero?
23:16 — “This Is a Bad Business” (But Everyone Uses It)
26:04 — The Only AI Moat: Regulation or Narrative
29:02 — Why Frontier Models Still Matter
32:04 — China,…
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What Tim Cook’s “Executive Chairman” Move Really Means | Musk vs OpenAI, xAI and Cursor Rumors
25 april 2026 · 53 min
The full quad is back and we're getting right into the tech drama: AI backlash (from Reese Witherspoon to everyday skepticism), breakthrough science like CRISPR entering its “it actually works” era, and major power shifts across tech — from Apple succession chatter to Jensen Huang’s leadership moments and the brewing battle between OpenAI and Elon Musk. They squad digs into SpaceX IPO dynamics, the rise of “traces” data as the next AI battleground, and what happens when AI gives more people the power to build. Lees meer
Chapters:
0:17 — Welcome Back: Full Quad Edition
1:07 — Creatine, AI Stuffies, and the Opening Chaos
4:37 — Breakthrough Prize & CRISPR Finally Working
5:47 — One-of-One Gene Therapy Becomes Real
7:07 — The AI Backlash Is Real8:47 — UBI vs. Meaning: The Real Debate
10:57 — Jensen’s “I Didn’t Wake Up a Loser Today” Moment
12:47 — Apple Succession: Tim Cook → John Ternus
16:17 — Asset Prices vs. Reality21:17 — Elon vs. OpenAI: The Trial
27:07 — SpaceX IPO: Biggest in History?
29:27 — xAI, Cursor, and the $60B Bet
36:07 — Traces Data: The Next AI Battleground
40:07 — Workplace Surveillance & Employee Data
48:27 — Who Gets to Build? (6B Users vs. 50M Builders)
51:07 — AI: Equalizer or Concentrator?
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1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
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3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Allbirds Pivoted to AI Data Centers | SpaceX $1.5T IPO, Anthropic $800B, $175M Seed Rounds
17 april 2026 · 44 min
SpaceX might be the biggest IPO ever but there’s a math problem no one’s pricing in. Once you factor in capital gains, you need to believe it’ll underperform the market by ~50% just to justify selling. That creates an invisible floor under mega-cap stocks and a market increasingly detached from reality. Meanwhile: Allbirds goes from $4B to $40M and pivots to “NewBird AI.” Seed valuations hit $175M — 3x YoY, above 2021 peak. And AI labs are allegedly planting stories on each other. This week on More or Less: SpaceX’s $19B revenue / $5B losses, the AI bubble, Anthropic $800B rumors, and why fund math is breaking. Lees meer
Chapters:
0:00 — Waymo vs. Uber: the autonomous tipping point
8:29 — Allbirds: $4B → $40M → “NewBird AI”
12:56 — Boom Supersonic and the data center pivot
15:17 — SpaceX IPO: bulls vs. bears
16:14 — The tax problem no one is pricing in
20:16 — Can mega-cap still 50x?
26:47 — SpaceX breakdown: Starlink vs. launch
28:20 — Anthropic $800B rumors
30:08 — OpenAI vs. Anthropic: leaks and competition
31:08 — The model switching problem (no real moat)
33:36 — AI behavior shift: “ask the agent”
38:17 — AI labs running oppo research
40:05 — Seed valuations surpass 2021 peak
42:00 — Fund math is broken
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Vercel CEO: 70% of Our Traffic Is Now AI Agents "Nobody Was Prepared" | Anthropic, OpenClaw, OpenAI
10 april 2026 · 47 min
Vercel CEO Guillermo Rauch breaks down the explosive rise of AI agents and what it means for the future of software infrastructure. He joins the Morins to unpack why Anthropic cut off OpenClaw users, why the SaaS subscription model is breaking down, how agents are reshaping cloud infrastructure, and why a new wave of “supergeniuses” (from neurosurgeons to 17-year-olds) are building things no one thought possible. Plus: dreams.md, the future of personal agents, and why agents are becoming the new computer. Lees meer
Chapters:
00:42 Intro: Guillermo Rauch, CEO and Founder of Vercel
01:48 Vercel Explodes 5X Growth and AI Traffic Surge
03:51 Why Anthropic Shut Down OpenClaw Users
04:47 Coding Agents Are the Path to AGI
07:57 70 Percent of Vercel Traffic Is Now AI
09:50 SaaS Is Dead Pay Per Token Takes Over
13:16 Anthropic vs OpenClaw Closed vs Open Agents
14:47 The Hidden Risk of AI Data and Training
16:38 Why Everyone Wants Their Own AI
18:08 The Shift to Agent Native Infrastructure
19:45 Vibe Coded Apps Are Going Viral
21:42 The AI Wars Anthropic OpenAI Elon
23:15 Dreams md Self Improving AI Agents
25:44 Memory Theory of Mind and Agent Intelligence
28:05 Your AI Should Travel With You
30:00 Enterprise AI and Domain Expert Agents
31:15 How Vercel Became an AI Native Company
33:06 Hiring in the Age of AI Agents
36:03 The Rise of Supergeniuses
38:10 Inside Slows Creator AI Hackathon
40:06 AI Agents Are the New Customers
41:18 Moving Up the Stack Again
42:05 What Happens in the Next 12 Months
43:48 AI Will Break Cloud and Security
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AI Agents Destroying Internet Security (Anthropic's Leak, ClawCon Tokyo, OpenAI's $852B Valuation)
3 april 2026 · 48 min
Sam Lessin accidentally emailed 40 of Silicon Valley's most important people using an AI bot — and that one mishap reveals everything broken about the AI security model right now. In this episode, Sam and Dave Morin (calling in from ClawCon Tokyo) argue that AI agents are quietly dismantling every security assumption the internet was built on: from open-source package trust chains to content moderation walls to the entire premise of software moats. Meanwhile, Jessica Lessin shares her own Claude Code disaster that proves even careful people are one 'approve' click away from chaos. The team also tears apart OpenAI's $852 billion valuation, debate whether 10 million software developers are about to become irrelevant, and explain why a professional skier in Alaska just built the app she'd been pitching for two years — in a single afternoon. Lees meer
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4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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The New Startup Stack: One Founder + Agents | Henrik Werdelin (Audos) and Ben Broca (Polsia)
27 maart 2026 · 54 min
Jess and Brit take the reins on this week's More or Less — and they're not exactly missing their husbands. They're joined by Henrik Werdelin (Audos), who's building a platform that takes solo founders from zero to funded company using AI agents, and Ben Broca (Polsia), a literal one-human, zero-employee founder who argues AGI is already here. What follows is a sharp, funny debate about whether solo "donkeycorns" are the future of entrepreneurship, where AI actually hits its limits, and why defensibility in an AI world might come down to the most analog thing of all — knowing yourself and the humans you serve. Lees meer
Chapters:
1:05 — Britt & Jess take over More or Less
3:15 — Meet Henrik Werdelin (Audos) & Ben Broca (Polsia)
5:00 — The Donkeycorn Era: Solo founders making millions with AI
8:15 — "AGI Is Here" — Ben's case for one founder, zero employees
10:30 — Jess vs. Ben: "My Claude can't remember" / "Skill issue"
17:00 — When AI suggested fecal transplant businesses (Henrik's wild early experiments)
19:00 — Relationship Capital: The real moat in an AI world
23:00 — Building an economy, not a tool — Ben's vision for Polsia
25:30 — Will AI democratize opportunity or just commoditize it?
32:00 — Bot Etiquette: When your AI emails psychics on your behalf
40:00 — The Sora Shutdown: "It's all just electricity"
42:30 — Is speed the only moat? Anthropic vs. OpenAI
46:30 — The Brain Gym: Why knowing yourself matters more than ever
52:00 — Wrap: SpaceX IPO, Aura IPO, and "Me, My Customer, and AI"
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4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Nvidia's GTC, Apple Blocking Vibe-Coding Apps, Meta's Rogue AI Agent
20 maart 2026 · 59 min
It’s going to be a dense episode on OpenClaw—and another classic example of how skeptical Sam is about its future, battling against Dave. The episode starts with Dave’s announcement: The OpenClaw Foundation is now a chartered Delaware nonprofit. Then: GTC. Jessica hits the floor, takes seven selfies, and watches Jensen go for three hours with no notes. Dave explains why Nvidia gave OpenClaw 30 minutes of keynote time: NemoClaw, OpenShell, enterprise guardrails, local models, on-prem everything. Jessica breaks down The Information’s story about a rogue AI agent tripping internal security at Meta—which becomes the perfect setup for a broader point: trust isn’t a feature; it’s the entire game. Then Apple. BitRig—built by the people who literally created SwiftUI—has been stuck in App Store review since November because Guideline 2.5.2 says apps can’t download and execute code that changes functionality. The security logic tracks. Apple’s selective enforcement history? Less so. The crew closes with the part nobody’s ready for: Morin’s 11-year-old just formed his first LLC for a vibe-coded iOS game, and a group of 12-year-olds at an AI school in Austin out-shipped every adult developer at ClawCon. Lees meer
Chapters:
02:14 - NVIDIA GTC Preview & Episode Roadmap
02:54 - The Rise of the "Master of Bots" Role
04:39 - Bot Anxiety & the Luxury AI vs. Cheap AI Divide
08:55 - NVIDIA GTC: Jensen as AI's Storyteller-in-Chief
17:21 - Nemo Claw, OpenShell & NVIDIA's Big OpenClaw Moment
23:02 - What Even Is OpenClaw? Sam Challenges Dave
29:51 - Breaking News: Rogue AI Agent Triggers Meta Security Alert
38:54 - OpenAI's Enterprise Pivot & the Anthropic Revenue Race
43:00 - Apple vs. Vibe Coding Apps: The App Store Bottleneck
51:34 - Kids, Claws & Cool Family Tech (Board.fun, Next Playground)
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Anthropic’s Bet on Coding Is Working (OpenAI Shopping Pivot, A16Z’s Top 50 List, $1B Tennis Channel)
13 maart 2026 · 59 min
It’s an AI-heavy episode with real stakes: Jessica digs into OpenAI’s evolving approach to shopping and why “closing the loop” on commerce could be the proving ground for consumer monetization. The group sparrs over charts: OpenAI vs. Anthropic annualized revenue, what “slope” investors actually care about, and whether Anthropic’s developer-first strategy (code, tokens, and high ARPU) is the smarter path than consumer mindshare.Sam argues that “intelligence” is heading toward a global, frictionless commodity market (bad for margins, great for usage) and introduces the idea of “dark pools” (proprietary access/data/relationships) as the only durable moat. Dave counters with the more optimistic take: AI is collapsing the line between “consumer” and “developer,” turning everyone into a builder, and launching a new creative medium (with examples spanning from software to film). Brit adds fuel with “nano-targeted” commerce and a tour through A16Z’s Top 50 GenAI web products list, highlighting both mainstream shifts and the internet’s… more ‘unexpected’ categories.Finally: a truly out-of-left-field deal pitch from Jess: should someone buy the Tennis Channel for ~$1B? Plus a rapid-fire pop culture close (Kelce’s return, Oscars bets, and what everyone’s watching) before Sam heads back to the sauna. Lees meer
Chapters:
0:00 — Intro & Sam's Sauna Hat
1:33 — First-Ever MOL Podcast Ad
3:54 — ChatGPT's Shopping Pivot
7:19 — The Chart: OpenAI vs Anthropic Revenue
11:52 — The Slope: Linear or Super Linear?
16:10 — Commerce Is Bad. Attention Is Good.
19:04 — AI Is Turning Everyone Into a Builder
20:15 — "$1B Raised, $900M spent on Inference"
23:17 — AI Is Worse Than the Cable Business
35:58 — Dark Pools: Death of the Open Marketplace
40:45 — The P50 Problem: What Happens to Average People?
42:38 — "Software Is Totally Commoditized"
45:43 — Brit's Bot Corner: Anime Husband Chatbots
50:44 — Should You Buy the Tennis Channel for $1B?
54:22 — Pop Culture Corner
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Fire Sam Altman, The End of Software Engineers, and Why AI Is All Narrative
6 maart 2026 · 52 min
This week the squad breaks down the Anthropic vs OpenAI drama (Fire Sam Altman is trending again), debates whether Apple is quietly winning the AI race by spending $0 while everyone else burns $100 billion, and confronts the question no one in Silicon Valley wants to answer: why aren't 200,000 software engineers talking about losing their jobs? Sam's answer: "Because it would be to admit you're in the 200,000 getting fired, not the 200,000 getting paid more." Plus: is China winning the open source AI phenomenon, is a recession coming (Lux Capital thinks so), and how Sam believes “code is just content” despite having built six apps in a week while on conference calls, including an AI clone of the podcast using everyone's real voices. It’s your weekly dive of More or Less. Lees meer
Chapters:
1:30 — Fire Sam Altman Trending Again: Dario's Leaked Slack Memo
10:15 — Sam's Vibe Coding Week: 6 Apps Including AI Versions of the Hosts
17:00 — Why AI Content Tends to Zero
20:00 — Apple M5 Chip: The Local AI Inference Play
23:30 — Block Cuts 40% of Workforce
25:30 — Will 200,000 Bay Area Software Engineers Lose Their Jobs?
30:00 — "Code Wins Arguments — But Now Everyone Can Code"
34:30 — Josh Wolfe's (Lux Capital) Recession Warning Email
36:30 — The Triangle Trade: DC, Silicon Valley & Wall Street's Narrative Collusion
39:00 — Yemen/Houthi Strike & Defense Tech
41:00 — Is Open Source AI a Chinese Phenomenon?
46:00 — The Second Wave: Agents Are the Website of This Era
49:00 — David's Protein Ice Cream
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Apple, OpenAI & Why Nobody Makes Money in AI | The SaaS Apocalypse
27 februari 2026 · 48 min
Starting with a mini celebration: Dave defends his ski racing crown, before Sam declares software dead and capitalism broken. Even among GPs at Upfront Summit, the mood is uncertain: nobody knows whether to invest in software anymore, and many are quietly struggling to raise.The debate heats up over whether AI will democratize software creation or just accelerate capitalism's race to zero margins. Sam argues that when intelligence becomes abundant, it becomes worthless, making the entire AI industry, and by extension Silicon Valley, "pretty bad business." Dave counters that we're about to see a Cambrian explosion of software creators, finally giving billions of people agency over their digital lives.Plus: whether Stripe should buy PayPal during this opportunistic Trump-administration window, Gen Z panic-buying original iPods, Sam's shitposting-to-funding pipeline, and whether OnlyFans has the best KYC in fintech Lees meer
Chapters:
7:24 - Upfront Summit: Where Are All the LPs?
10:49 - Are VCs Still Investing in Software?
12:04 - Slow Ventures Going Contrarian: Investing While Others Freeze
13:27 - When Intelligence Goes to Zero: Why AI is Bad Business
15:53 - Polsia: $100K to $700K ARR in One Week (AI Agents Only)
19:39 - Capitalism's Black Hole: AI Makes Markets Too Efficient
25:00 - Creator Fund Thesis: Investing in Cults, Not Content
28:20 - Who Makes Money When Margins Hit Zero?
34:41 - Silicon Valley's Advantage is DEAD (The Magic Wizard Hat)
37:35 - Who Should Buy PayPal? (Stripe's One-Shot Window)
42:11 - Agentic Commerce: Do Payment Networks Even Matter?
45:18 - OpenAI Smart Speaker: Eddie Cue's Son Working on It
46:51 - Gen Z Buying Original iPods: The Analog Rebellion
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4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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OpenClaw vs Meta vs OpenAI: The Personal Agent Wars Heat Up
20 februari 2026 · 57 min
In this episode of More or Less, we go from Sam's urgent care drama to the hottest debates in AI. Dave dives into his news about joining the OpenClaw Foundation board as the fastest-growing open source project in internet history faces a new chapter. While the OpenClaw founder is heading to OpenAI, Meta is launching competing agents, and the battle for personal AI is officially ON. How the "Internet of Putting iPads on Things" era returning, Anthropic vs Pentagon drama, whether AI intelligence will become worthless like cheap electricity, and why your 'normie' friends will be sending you their vibe-coded apps within 12 months. Lees meer
Chapters:
3:02 Sam's Ski Injury Saga
5:00 OpenClaw Founder Going To OpenAI & Dave's Foundation Role
8:07 OpenClaw vs. Manus (On-Device vs. Cloud)
11:02 Vibe Coding: Building an App a Day
12:03 Meta vs. OpenAI Rivalry
22:00 The Fundraising Market: Mega Rounds & Narrative Capitalism
27:04 The Big Debate: Bay Area Engineers in 3 Years
41:01 Anthropic vs. The Pentagon
45:01 Intelligence as a Commodity
53:50 Tennis with Madison Keys plug
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4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Why OpenAI Can't Win The Decentralized AI Future (OpenClaw, Apple's Win, X.AI Exodus)
13 februari 2026 · 1 uur 1 min
We're recording this from Jackson Hole after three days of wheeling and dealing—and yes, canceling meetings for powder. This week we're going deep on OpenClaw. The meetup had 1,500 people show up (Kevin Rose, Marissa Mayer, Ashton Kutcher were some notable guests). And now we're all spending thousands of dollars a month on AI agents we've named after Friends characters while debating whether "developer" is even a job title anymore.We talk about:• Why founders are working 24/7 and possibly burning out• The decentralized AI future (and why it's not great for OpenAI)• Dark software factories where only agents write code• Whether everyone's jobs are about to disappear (spoiler: we disagree)• The SaaS-pocalypse coming for legacy software• Personal AI sovereignty and why Apple's just sitting back laughingAlso: Google's CC assistant is… fine? And we have strong opinions about Heated Rivalry.Chapters:0:00 - Intro: Skiing in Jackson Hole2:30 - Conference Takeaways: Founders Are Working Relentlessly 7:15 - AI Burnout & the 24/7 Work Cycle12:40 - Naming Your AI Agents (Friends Edition)15:20 - How Much Are You Spending on Bots?18:45 - Google CC Assistant Review22:10 - OpenClaw Meetup: 1500 People Show Up28:30 - What Even Is a Developer Anymore?35:50 - OpenAI vs Decentralized AI: The Big Debate42:15 - Personal AI & Data Sovereignty47:20 - Dark Software Factories & Agentic Engineering52:10 - Are All the Jobs Going Away?55:40 - The SaaS Apocalypse58:20 - Pop Culture: Heated Rivalry, Nancy Guthrie Case, StrangersWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/KUA7ue5vB1EConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit Lees meer
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SpaceX + xAI Merger, Google Earnings, and and the Bot-Filled Internet
6 februari 2026 · 50 min
This week on More or Less, three-quarters of the squad goes full AI-agent mode with Morin’s ClawCon, Sam’s LinkedIn bots, and Brit’s bot-agent-supervisor. We kick things off with The Information’s breaking story (and potentially trade of the year): Elon’s $1.2T SpaceX + xAI merger. Then we unpack why Jess thinks Jeff Bezos should sell The Washington Post, why media has to own the audience, and how “vibe buys,” cult capitalism, and winner-take-all narratives are still the real moats shaping where money flows. The Dead Internet Theory starts feeling uncomfortably real and we touch on why the future swings back to IRL and community-driven experiences. Plus: the Super Bowl in NorCal, Brit’s Grammys rundown, and a cameo teaser.Chapters:00:53 – Dave and MSG’s ClawCon04:05 – Super Bowl Week in NorCal04:31 – Today’s Agenda: SpaceX + xAI, WaPo Layoffs, AI Fatigue, Super Bowl Week in NorCal05:33 – SpaceX + xAI Merger: Elon’s Narrative Assets and the Deal’s Winners & Losers17:27 – Washington Post Layoffs and Why Bezos Should Sell21:19 – Google Cloud Crushes Earnings22:22 – B2B vs. B2C: Is OpenAI Throwing Spaghetti at the Wall?29:44 – Claude’s “No Ads” Jab at OpenAI32:12 – The Squad’s OpenClaw Experiments41:39 – Dead Internet Theory45:55 – Super Bowl Logistics47:26 – Pop Culture Corner: Grammys Recap49:08 – Disney Names Parks Leader as CEOWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/sbhGfYsFUlsConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit Lees meer
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Agentic AI Will Break the Internet (ClawdBot, OpenAI & the AI Demand Delusion)
30 januari 2026 · 57 min
Jessica is back from Davos and is recapping her highlights on the pod this week. If you’re a loyal podcast ‘viewer’, you’re in luck because Jess also brought photos from a recent Grace Cathedral sound bath visit before she dives deep into the Clawdbot/Moltbot/agentic moment. Dave is all in on what’s to come in this new age of agentic computers, and in true Sam fashion, he is less impressed by the technology and suggests that if the trend continues, it’s going to be bye bye internet. In the land of the other ‘mature’ AI companies, Jess recaps her Davos AI infra panel’s red-pill take on AI with the killer quote of the week: “the appetite for intelligence is limitless.” But how true is all this demand and how much of it is really narrative? Could the rise in gold and silver prices really be a sign of technology shorting? The crew also reacts to the Minneapolis situation, debating whether it’s a scaling issue at ICE or a political move. Chapters:00:30 — Jess Returns From Davos: No Snow, All SXSW Energy 03:40 — Grace Cathedral Sound Baths06:25 — Moltbot Heat Spike: Are AI Agents Ending the Internet? 17:29 — Moltbot Has no Moat; Founders Should Be Memorable Instead21:26 — Inside the Davos AI Panel: CoreWeave, G42, OpenAI & BlackRock’s Red Pill 29:47 — Minneapolis, ICE, and How the Valley Is Reacting 51:03 — The AI Chatbot Trap for Retail (And Why Everyone Will Fall for It) We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/OZDFAvRq7GcConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit Lees meer
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From ClawdBots to Sauna Bros: Silicon Valley in 2026
23 januari 2026 · 49 min
While Jess is off being “Davos-famous,” the squad kicks things off with the classic California vs. New York debate. From there, it’s straight into AI and VC chaos: absurd mega-seed rounds that break portfolio math, why even a great early bet like Anthropic wouldn’t return a seed fund, and a revisit of Sam’s view that there are only two ways to win right now—(1) have a real secret and stay capital-efficient, or (2) own the narrative. Dave flags a new “walkout culture” in AI, where executives jump ship the moment incentives shift. The crew then debates whether AI is actually shaping ideas or just polishing them (a fancy spellcheck?), why the question matters more than the answer, and how personal, computer-driving “Clawdbots” feel inevitable and maybe exactly where Apple should be headed, despite the security concerns. The episode rounds out with The Information's breaking news on Apple's AI pins, shrinking subscription moats and business-model shifts, plus detours into the New York Times’ sauna-bros piece, Sam’s WTF Conference protest merch, Super Bowl plans, and more.Chapters:01:00 – Hello Davos listeners!03:42 – SF vs. New York: where VC actually wins05:41 – The seed valuation "fairway" vs bloated-roads10:07 – Anthropic & OpenAI: good wins, but bad seed returns11:58 – AI founder drama: mercenary teams & narrative fundraising13:53 – Did Claude write its own constitution?15:18 – AI as spellcheck on steroids21:01 – Ralph: autonomous AI agent loop24:03 – What ClawdBot really is; symphony orchestrator26:51 – The Information breaks: Apple’s AI wearable pin; are phones getting tired?29:02 – The rise of “orchestra compute” and hacked APIs31:44 – Subscription models are at risk: Whoop, Eight Sleep, Peloton, Apple41:18 – The New York Times' feature on Sauna Bros44:53 – Sam's WTF Conference merch & Montana shooting plans46:34 – Squad's Super Bowl plansWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/AgwMF… Lees meer
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SaaS Companies Beware: AI Is The New UI (Anthropic's Claude Code and Cowork)
16 januari 2026 · 54 min
AI, AI, and more AI. Do you even live in Silicon Valley if you’re not talking about it every episode? This week, we go deep on how open-source vibe-coding tools are starting to replace the need for traditional SaaS contracts. Dave shows (and tells) how he used the open-source “Claude bot” to reverse-engineer his Mural photo frames and spin up a better web UI in under 30 minutes. Brit test-drives Anthropic’s new Cowork, auto-mapping the entire seed VC market while it runs her browser, and celebrates how much these agents are boosting household productivity. Sam loves the power but calls local agents a massive security backdoor, argues trust will consolidate with Apple and Google, declares that “software is not a business,” and announces we’ve officially entered the fart-app era of AI toys. Jessica flags rising panic among SaaS vendors. Don’t miss Sam’s hot-chick analogy and Brit’s Pop Corner to close it out 😉Chapters:02:05 Vibe coding week: Anthropic's Claude Code & Cowork05:25 Dave's Reverse-engineering Mural frames08:30 AI Agents as a security nightmare12:03 AI’s Napster moment18:43 Software is no longer a defensible business24:00 Sam's investing: Quiet AI businesses or narrative ownership29:27 Offline's Seed alpha in illegible spaces33:06 When will platforms start to block APIs and protect their business?35:27 Shopify Founder and CEO, Tobi's Tweet on modern UI for MRI reading 43:34 GLP-1s & grocery spend45:06 The Information's Wealth tax poll result48:55 We're in the fart-app era of AIWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/2q99bDO-a1EConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit Lees meer
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Trillionaires, SpaceX, and More AI: The 2026 Power Laws
9 januari 2026 · 58 min
The squad is back for 2026 with updates: Dave’s Montana “Snow Report” (spoiler: none), Brit’s contrarian love letter to CES, and Sam’s new “serious 40-year-old” fashion era. We go rapid-fire through the biggest headlines from the past few weeks we were offline—OpenAI’s health app, China cutting off the H200, and a wave of 2026 liquidity from SpaceX and AI that could mint centi-billionaires, or even trillionaires. Sam unpacks his viral 2026 memo, returning to a familiar theme from the pod: why narratives now matter more than reality, why seed should fund “infinity stories,” and how AI is turning software into consumable media. We also dig into the hot topic of the week—California’s wealth tax and founder flight—plus AI partners, Claude-code mania, real-world clinical AI, America’s hat discourse, and one very specific New Year’s resolution (PS: this is why Sam is wearing a collared shirt). Welcome back to More or Less. Lees meer
Chapters:01:04 Morin's Weather Report from Montana01:51 CES Corner: The Squad Yucks on Brit's Yum05:43 The Information: Breaking China's H200 ban (US Vs China Tech Trade War)07:22 Quick Recap: Gifting Etiquette for VCs10:00 2026 liquidity wave: Trillionaire era15:35 California's new wealth tax: Its losing out on the liquidity20:05 Sam’s 2026 memo: narratives > reality, seed strategy, and end of the SaaS era31:23 AI companions vs real-world relationships (embodiment over abstraction)48:52 OpenAI Health deep dive56:00 Sam’s new style (and hygiene routine) for 2026We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/DMEDrOnLAGMConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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2026 Tech Predictions: AI Layoffs, a $500B IPO, and the Death of SaaS as We Know It
19 december 2025 · 56 min
The pod signs off for the year with its final episode—a sharp, chaotic recap of last year’s predictions and a fresh round of hot takes for 2026. Sam and Dave, unsurprisingly, wing it: Sam calls a single $500B+ IPO (SpaceX), Google up, NVIDIA down, and Meta hitting new highs on AI-powered ads. Jess warns that AI-driven efficiency will fuel layoffs (especially in journalism) and that CapEx hype is outrunning reality. Dave predicts a boom in third places and games-first IP, while Britt bets on an Apple comeback, AI wearables as daily “life summarizers,” a breakout AI-native social app, and a celebrity licensing their AI twin. True to form, the crew goes off script to debate Amazon’s rumored $10B OpenAI deal, AI as the new UI, which model builders survive, regulation looming over prediction markets, “slop” as word of the year, GLP-1s going mainstream, creators eyeing Emmys, and much more. Chapters: Lees meer
01:50 Morin’s “Nauti or Nice” Holiday Card
04:06 Sam’s 2025 Predictions: Bitcoin, Solana ETFs, Crypto Government Adoption
05:16 Britt’s 2025 Predictions: Amazon Marketplace, Elon’s “TITS,” Swift Engagement
07:52 Dave’s 2025 Predictions: Data Centers, Material Flow Robotics, Crypto Clarity
10:18 Jess’s 2025 Predictions: TikTok U.S., Vertical Stacks, Media Copyright, GLP-1s
11:40 2025 Themes: “Slop,” AI Talent Wars, Government–Tech Ties
12:58 Big Tech Check-In: Apple Loses Ground, Google’s Delta
13:41 Amazon’s $10B OpenAI Bet and Chip Diplomacy
16:16 Britt’s 2026 Predictions: Apple Comeback, Wearable Agents, AI Talent Deals
21:45 Jess’s 2026 Predictions: AI-Driven Layoffs, Liquidity Wave, Prediction Market Regulation
28:57 Dave’s 2026 Predictions: Third Places, Games-First IP, Roblox Scrutiny
36:17 Sam’s 2026 Predictions: One $500B+ IPO, Nvidia Down, Google Up, Meta ATH
44:13 AI Is the New UI: SaaS UX Moats Under Pressure
49:35 Does AI Adult Content Go Mainstream?
50:04 Dave on Google Doppl and AI Try-On Tech
51:28 Britt’s Pop Corner: Taylor Swift Album and Pre…
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Paramount vs Netflix: Who Really Wins Warner Bros And What's Next?
12 december 2025 · 1 uur 4 min
This week’s a big one: the squad kicks it off with Starlink on planes, Zoox vs. Waymo, and YouTube’s skinny bundle before taking the big swing — data centers in space as the emerging SpaceX-IPO narrative. Sam and Dave break down the real entrepreneurship skill: tell the huge story, earn the trust multiple, and consistently deliver “20 cents on the dollar” to keep the flywheel of cash spinning (re: Elon Musk and Sam Altman but thread lightly, you don't want to end up like Elizabeth Holmes or Sam Bankman-Fried). Jess celebrates a win with The Information after getting CNBC to correct their reporting. Then they touch on how the backlash against AI is growing as the 101 billboards fill up with more AI company ads. From Sorkin’s 1929 zeitgeist to smuggling Nvidia chips into China to “IPO everything and pray the American economy survives,” it’s never a dull episode with Brit, Dave, Jess, and Sam. Stay tuned for next week’s 2026 predictions… and drop yours in the comments.Chapters:05:50 Netflix vs Paramount - Who's going to win the deal and is this an Inverse AOL-Time Warner?16:56 Golden Globes nominees and Disney+'s Taylor Swift docuseries17:49 Bundling unbundling YouTube’s skinny bundle and sports21:29 Starlink on planes = fewer redeyes24:55 Zoox vs Waymo28:15 Space GPUs and the data centers in space33:57 The modern entrepreneurship skill: narrative flywheel41:38 Jess’s and The Information's win correcting CNBC's refuted chip story46:04 AI narrative in China vs US47:16 AI backlash: energy prices, water restraints, and kid's mental health52:06 The 101 Billboard Bubble Index57:17 Will the SpaceX, OpenAI, Anduril, or Anthropic IPOs save the economy?58:30 Sorkin’s book predicted the AI bubble?We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/RiKVJD_3ziMConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: … Lees meer
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Code Red, Bitcoin Costs, AWS Resurgence, and Waymo Safety (Not About AI... ish)
5 december 2025 · 1 uur
Bitcoin’s down, so the Lessins turned down the heat and pulled out their winter gear. The More or Less squad jumps from SF’s drone-powered crime-fighting memes (Daniel Lurie’s “no drugs” moment) to how creator-content strategy now drives real deal flow. Jess says 2026 will split the AI tide (we unfortunately did have to touch on AI), with Meta’s missing enterprise story dragging its CapEx dreams, while AWS is suddenly courting founders again. From Apple’s design chief Alan Dye jumping to Meta to questioning whether OpenAI’s “code red” was a decoy, the squad never misses when it comes to the latest thinking in Silicon Valley. Lees meer
Buy Slow's Modern Etiquette book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G4HSKSY5
Chapters:
Chapters:01:10 Kudos to SF Mayor, Daniel Lurie!07:14 Doom scrolling on a Garmin watch12:34 Holiday gift guides: AI robots, Duolingo piano, Matic vac mop, etc14:30 The creator-VC playbook 21:27 Instagram RTO 5 days per week leadership reality check22:08 Alan Dye leaves Apple for Meta 26:09 Jess' 2026 prediction: The Big Tech divergence is coming27:46 Meta’s enterprise gap28:46 AWS outreach to Sam: Bedrock Nova and startup credits31:45 Sam Altman's code red memo -- is it a decoy?33:51 Gemini latency vs GPT why speed matters for Brit (Ad opp?)44:39 Is Aaron Levie for or against AI?46:40 Waymo's safety report and Dave's FSD usage51:21 Recapping the Slow holiday party + Offline's next58:28 Slow's Modern Etiquette Book plug (Link to purchase: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G4HSKSY5)
We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTubeConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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OpenAI vs Google vs Meta: Business Model War
28 november 2025 · 1 uur 9 min
Pre-Thanksgiving chatter from the Lessins’ Surf Shack: Jess, Brit, Dave, and Sam pinball from holiday-card automation to trillion-dollar AI geopolitics. Brit trades Minted for Canva+GPT, Jess admits to maintaining a 600-row address spreadsheet, Sam unveils Slow’s Etiquette Book, and Dave still can’t believe we can’t pay in USDC. Don’t worry this year's Thanksgiving edition will live up to its hype, the crew gets into the real stuff too: Google’s TPU push vs. Nvidia’s moat, Meta reportedly buying billions in TPUs, whether Google can shave 10% off Nvidia’s revenue, and more.Chapters:06:45 The San Francisco consensus and Silicon Valley’s real innovation marketing Lees meer
11:10 Elon Zuck and megaphone-powered distribution
14:30 Why interface distribution will decide AI winner
17:20 Memory isn’t real lock-in switching between ChatGPT and Gemini
21:40 OpenAI’s identity crisis: Apple-style computer vs Meta-style attention
26:30 Google complex vs OpenAI complex how the narrative flipped
29:10 Google TPUs vs Nvidia Meta’s rumored buying spree
33:20 AI infrastructure economics depreciation CapEx margins
36:00 Macro vs micro elections risk cycles
40:10 DOE’s Genesis Mission and where the analogy breaks
44:00 OpenAI's Jony Ive device timeline
48:30 Why distribution still beats novelty
53:15 Final takeaways: marketing distribution and business-model warsWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/7BbWHm3KODwConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Google Just Won AI, TikTok’s “Self-Control Badges”, ChatGPT Enters Group Chats
21 november 2025 · 1 uur
Jessica kicks things off with Brit’s five-hour Brit-chella extravaganza—red latex, Light Balance blackout choreo, Ke$ha surprise, and more. The crew checks in on Jessica’s IG detox, TikTok's new "self control badges", ChatGPT launching group chats, Google Gemini taking the lead, and why “just be Google” might be the winning AI brand strategy as AI melts into UX. Sam calls 2026 OpenAI’s make-or-break year and trashes their consumer subscription thesis; Jessica argues ad/commerce is the only viable lane. Markets stay frothy (Nvidia), hyperscaler debt risk rises, the White House preempts 50-state AI chaos, and Coinbase x Kalshi turns prediction markets into a spectator sport. Meme corner closes the loop and a possible Femme-etiquette school spinoff make its debut. Lees meer
Chapters:
00:37 Intro and Brit-Chella Recap
10:33 Jessica’s Instagram detox check-in and what changed
15:59 TikTok’s anti screen-time badges
17:48 ChatGPT launches group chats; why Meta missed its chance
20:51 Google Gemini takes the lead in the AI race
23:37 OpenAI’s monetization problem; no one buys the consumer story
29:14 Just be Google — higher brand credibility, revenue streams, and distribution
39:33 Breaking: Nvidia earnings are still growing
43:14 White House EO to preempt state AI regulation; why federal matters
48:06 Coinbase and Kalshi prediction markets, culture, and compliance
53:12 Meme Corner: RIP 6–7, hello 41
56:03 Make SF Dress Up Again: Femme-Etiquette School
We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
YouTube: https://youtu.be/ahZTkLfJTyk
Connect with us here:
1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
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Apple’s iPhone Sock, Waymo's Bay Area Expansion, and AI Wearables
14 november 2025 · 59 min
The squad is complete again! We get into AI wearables: rings, necklaces, even earrings, after Dave hints his stealth ring startup is almost ready. Waymo quietly rolls out SF–San Jose service (still no freeways), while private-jet owners email senators about the shutdown. The squad goes over Andy Rubin’s humanoid robotics launch, Sam’s backwards Panopticon sign, Apple’s Issey Miyake iPhone “sock/pocket,” and that Slow’s etiquette school is now getting international interest. We wrap with Janitor AI’s romance boom, Sam building an AI kids-podcast pipeline with ElevenLabs, Brit wanting McConaughey to voice romance, Jess taking an Instagram detox, and more. Lees meer
Chapters:
01:18 AI in interior design and AI slop; Why AI commerce still feels broken
04:59 Apple week iPhone Air vs Pro
08:49 Wearable AI flood Ray-Bans, rings, and other wearables
15:32 Jess deletes Instagram and maybe email
21:05 Multitasking vs focus
23:32 Andy Rubin’s new robotics company
27:15 SORON reveal and home deterrence roadmap
29:15 Military research to practical deterrent systems
30:29 Panopticon conference room and GDPR simplification
32:29 Waymo expansion and route quirks
35:35 Apple Issey Miyake iPhone pocket sock
38:40 Slow's Etiquette Finishing school goes global
44:50 The Lessin Family AI generated kids podcast
49:06 BBC scandal media bias and blowback
54:12 Lawfare the financialization of lawsuits
We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
YouTube: https://youtu.be/pA20Sk63yYE
Connect with us here:
1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit