No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp
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270: Curtis Chang: The Real Thing Driving American Politics
13 juli 2026 · 51 min
What if our institutions, even the broken ones, are worth saving? Lees meer
Curtis Chang doesn't think you can understand American politics right now unless you understand one thing, and it isn't what you'd expect. It isn't policy or party. It's fear: an anxiety about future loss that “both” sides are quietly managing, with liberals afraid of having religion imposed on their lives and conservatives afraid of losing a tradition they love. Chang, the founder of Good Faith and co-author of The After Party with David French and Russell Moore, has spent his life as a bridge person, ever since he arrived from Taiwan at age three. Here, he and Lee trace that fear all the way down to our institutions, which Curtis argues are not systems to build up or tear down, but people, and therefore worth repairing.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Curtis Chang
Thank you to our sponsors:
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Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee…
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269: Unabridged Interview: James Kimmel, Jr.
10 juli 2026 · 1 uur 12 min
This is our unabridged interview with James Kimmel, Jr. Lees meer
There's a grievance that keeps coming back to you: in the shower, in traffic, at two in the morning. You replay it, win the argument again and settle the score again. It feels like justice, but it never quite satisfies.
James Kimmel Jr. spent decades trying to understand that pull. At seventeen, he came within seconds of committing a mass shooting, then drove away and devoted his life to the question of why he had wanted it so badly.
Now on the faculty of Yale's medical school, he makes a startling, evidence-backed claim: revenge is a literal addiction. A grievance activates the pain network in your brain, and your brain reaches for the dopamine hit of payback. It's why mass shooters are "grievance collectors," and why social media, in his words, has become a grievance transmission machine. But there's a second half to the story. Forgiveness, he argues, is a wonder drug we're already hardwired to take, one that stops the pain rather than masking it and asks nothing of the person who wronged you. Lee is invited to try it on the spot during the interview, and you can hear what happens. Listen as they discuss James’ new book, The Science of Revenge: Understanding the World's Deadliest Addiction - and How to Overcome It.
Name the Grievance Revenge often begins with real pain, and recognizing that pain is the first step toward freedom.
Understand Your Brain Kimmel explains how grievance activates the brain’s pain network and makes retaliation feel rewarding.
Resist Revenge Culture From social media to entertainment, our culture often trains us to nurse grievances and seek payback.
Forgive Without Excusing Forgiveness does not require pardon, reconciliation, or staying in unsafe relationships; it can be an internal act of healing.
Practice Letting Go Imagining forgiveness, even briefly, can interrupt pain and open space for better choices.
Heal the Common Good Kimmel suggests that forgiveness is not only …
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Songwriter Thomm Jutz on Turning a Dark Inheritance Into Something Beautiful
9 juli 2026 · 18 min
Can creativity transform the darkness of your past? Lees meer
Lee sits down with Grammy-nominated songwriter Thomm Jutz to discuss his grandfather's suicide, apparently after he was unable to come to terms with the fact that he'd been a Nazi, a friend lost to alcoholism, and Carl Jung's aid in his life, all while sharing songs he's written that helped heal his own inherited darkness.
This episode is a preview of a longer conversation.
The full discussion is available in the NSE+ community.👉 Join NSE+ HERE
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The Subtext: Is Nate Bargatze Guilty by Association?
8 juli 2026 · 42 min
What does it mean when a “clean” and “family friendly” comedian supports the UFC Freedom 250 fight, rubbing shoulders with unethical and greedy billionaires? Lees meer
This isn’t really about Nate Bargatze. It's about all of us and the selective moral lines we draw. This week on The Subtext, Lee and Savannah wrestle with questions of public witness, private relationships, power, and consistency, looking to Jesus' encounters with both the oppressed and the powerful. In a world where every public act seems to communicate something, how do we live with integrity while practicing a morality that refuses to leave anyone behind?
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Scandalous Witness by Lee C. Camp
Who Is My Enemy? by Lee C. Camp
Mere Discipleship by Lee C. Camp
Missing Me by Ayana Lage
Biological War: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen (episode out on No Small Endeavor July 27th!)
Savannah's Substack article: "The toothless, selective moralism of a Nate Bargatze Christianity"
Musa al-Gharbi on No Small Endeavor
Brother to a Dragonfly by Will Campbell
The Cross and the Lynching Tree by James Cone
Loretta Ross on No Small Endeavor
40% OFF SCANDALOUS WITNESS: Use code WITNESS40. Code is good for 40% off the paperback of Scandalous Witness. Only valid when ordering on Eerdmans.com, only valid for USA shipping addresses. Code is good until end of 2026.
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269: James Kimmel, Jr.: Your Brain on Revenge
6 juli 2026 · 51 min
There's a grievance that keeps coming back to you: in the shower, in traffic, at two in the morning. You replay it, win the argument again and settle the score again. It feels like justice, but it never quite satisfies. Lees meer
James Kimmel Jr. spent decades trying to understand that pull. At seventeen, he came within seconds of committing a mass shooting, then drove away and devoted his life to the question of why he had wanted it so badly.
Now on the faculty of Yale's medical school, he makes a startling, evidence-backed claim: revenge is a literal addiction. A grievance activates the pain network in your brain, and your brain reaches for the dopamine hit of payback. It's why mass shooters are "grievance collectors," and why social media, in his words, has become a grievance transmission machine. But there's a second half to the story. Forgiveness, he argues, is a wonder drug we're already hardwired to take, one that stops the pain rather than masking it and asks nothing of the person who wronged you. Lee is invited to try it on the spot during the interview, and you can hear what happens. Listen as they discuss James’ new book, The Science of Revenge: Understanding the World's Deadliest Addiction - and How to Overcome It.
Name the Grievance Revenge often begins with real pain, and recognizing that pain is the first step toward freedom.
Understand Your Brain Kimmel explains how grievance activates the brain’s pain network and makes retaliation feel rewarding.
Resist Revenge Culture From social media to entertainment, our culture often trains us to nurse grievances and seek payback.
Forgive Without Excusing Forgiveness does not require pardon, reconciliation, or staying in unsafe relationships; it can be an internal act of healing.
Practice Letting Go Imagining forgiveness, even briefly, can interrupt pain and open space for better choices.
Heal the Common Good Kimmel suggests that forgiveness is not only personal medicine but a social good that can help communiti…
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268: Unabridged Interview: Lee C. Camp
3 juli 2026 · 1 uur 11 min
This is our unabridged interview with Lee C. Camp. Lees meer
In a rare role reversal, No Small Endeavor host Lee C. Camp takes the guest seat as theologian and journalist Russell Moore interviews him about his book, releasing in paperback July 2nd, Scandalous Witness: A Little Political Manifesto for Christians.
Rather than offering a defense of Christian power in America, Lee reckons honestly with the ways Christians have often been bad neighbors, especially when faith has been reduced to “values” extracted from the story of Jesus and used to control others. Together, Lee and Russell explore how Christian witness might still serve the common good through humility, prudence, and the imaginative power of art. In a divided and weary public life, this episode asks what it would mean for Christians, and all people seeking the good life, to trade domination for service, despair for action, and ideology for the patient work of human flourishing.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Lee C. Camp
Thank you to our sponsors:
Hiya: Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. Visit hiyahealth.com/NSE!
The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more!
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, commun…
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The Subtext: Scandalous Witness with Lee C. Camp
1 juli 2026 · 45 min
The paperback edition of Lee's book just dropped, and Savannah's got questions! Lees meer
Savannah and Lee are celebrating the paperback release of Scandalous Witness by working through the book’s big ideas: why Christianity is not a religion but a politic, liberalism, Romans 13, the dream of a Christian America, and, perhaps most important, why Lee can’t stand the word "countercultural.” Use code WITNESS40 for 40% off the paperback, and don't forget to enter the giveaway on Instagram.
Things we mentioned in this episode:
40% OFF SCANDALOUS WITNESS: Use code WITNESS40. Code is good for 40% off the paperback of Scandalous Witness. Only valid when ordering on Eerdmans.com, only valid for USA shipping addresses. Code is good until end of 2026.
ENTER TO WIN A FREE COPY: Follow @thesubtextshow and tag a friend to enter! Giveaway closes on Tuesday, July 7th, 2026 at 11:59pm CT.
ORDER SCANDALOUS WITNESS: Amazon | Barnes & Nobel | Bookshop.org | Eerdmans
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268: Lee C. Camp: Christianity, Politics, and the Common Good
29 juni 2026 · 51 min
In a rare role reversal, No Small Endeavor host Lee C. Camp takes the guest seat as theologian and journalist Russell Moore interviews him about his book, releasing in paperback July 2nd, Scandalous Witness: A Little Political Manifesto for Christians. Lees meer
Rather than offering a defense of Christian power in America, Lee reckons honestly with the ways Christians have often been bad neighbors, especially when faith has been reduced to “values” extracted from the story of Jesus and used to control others. Together, Lee and Russell explore how Christian witness might still serve the common good through humility, prudence, and the imaginative power of art. In a divided and weary public life, this episode asks what it would mean for Christians, and all people seeking the good life, to trade domination for service, despair for action, and ideology for the patient work of human flourishing.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Lee C. Camp
Thank you to our sponsors:
Hiya: Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. Visit hiyahealth.com/NSE!
The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more!
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a goo…
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267: Unabridged Interview: Allison Russell
26 juni 2026 · 1 uur 18 min
This is our unabridged interview with Allison Russell. Lees meer
How does someone turn a childhood marked by danger and loss into a life full of music, courage, and joy?
Allison Russell’s life has been marked by trauma, survival, and a persistent return to beauty. After leaving an abusive home as a teenager and finding refuge in the streets and music of Montreal, she slowly discovered that art could become more than escape. It could become a way to tell the truth and stay alive. In this conversation, Russell reflects on the making of her breakthrough album Outside Child, the ancestral stories shaping her upcoming memoir, and the hard-won practices of forgiveness, motherhood, and community that help her keep choosing joy.
Key ideas in this episode:
Choose Joy Anyway Russell describes joy not as denial, but as a daily practice that can coexist with grief, trauma, and uncertainty.
Transform Pain Through Art Music becomes a refuge, a release, and a way of metabolizing suffering into something that can help others heal.
Recover Your Lineage Russell’s search for her biological father and Black family history reveals how ancestry can deepen identity, resilience, and belonging.
Break Cycles of Harm Forgiveness, for Russell, is not excusing abuse but refusing to let vengeance determine the shape of her life.
Practice Radical Belonging Her work in harm reduction and housing equality taught her that every person deserves safety, dignity, and loving kindness.
Return to the Body Walking, running, yoga, nature, and music help Russell stay grounded while doing the difficult inner work of memoir and memory.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Allison Russell
Thank you to our sponsors:
Hiya: Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. Visit hiyahealth.com/NSE!
The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available…
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The Subtext: Skinny Culture, Open Theism, Anger!
24 juni 2026 · 49 min
We’re doing a temperature check of different cultural artifacts, including the UFC Freedom 250 fight, open theism, the gift of anger, and skinny culture. Lees meer
This week on The Subtext, Savannah and Lee do a full cultural temperature check. They react to the UFC Freedom 250 chaos (yes, including that post-fight interview), dig into a listener’s question about Open Theism and whether God actually knows how the story ends, explore why anger gets genderized, and wade into the online debate around ultra-thin bodies and who gets to say something. It's theology, body politics, and combat sports…all in one episode! Just another day for us.
Things we mentioned in this episode:
The Technological Society by Jacques Ellul
Please Use AI by Shawn Smucker
Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke
Suzanne Stabile on No Small Endeavor
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267: Allison Russell: A Persistent Return To Beauty
22 juni 2026 · 51 min
How does someone turn a childhood marked by danger and loss into a life full of music, courage, and joy? Lees meer
Allison Russell’s life has been marked by trauma, survival, and a persistent return to beauty. After leaving an abusive home as a teenager and finding refuge in the streets and music of Montreal, she slowly discovered that art could become more than escape. It could become a way to tell the truth and stay alive. In this conversation, Russell reflects on the making of her breakthrough album Outside Child, the ancestral stories shaping her upcoming memoir, and the hard-won practices of forgiveness, motherhood, and community that help her keep choosing joy.
Key ideas in this episode:
Choose Joy Anyway Russell describes joy not as denial, but as a daily practice that can coexist with grief, trauma, and uncertainty.
Transform Pain Through Art Music becomes a refuge, a release, and a way of metabolizing suffering into something that can help others heal.
Recover Your Lineage Russell’s search for her biological father and Black family history reveals how ancestry can deepen identity, resilience, and belonging.
Break Cycles of Harm Forgiveness, for Russell, is not excusing abuse but refusing to let vengeance determine the shape of her life.
Practice Radical Belonging Her work in harm reduction and housing equality taught her that every person deserves safety, dignity, and loving kindness.
Return to the Body Walking, running, yoga, nature, and music help Russell stay grounded while doing the difficult inner work of memoir and memory.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Allison Russell
Thank you to our sponsors:
Hiya: Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. Visit hiyahealth.com/NSE!
The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-da…
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266: Unabridged Interview: Marisa Renee Lee
19 juni 2026 · 1 uur 3 min
This is our unabridged interview with Marisa Renee Lee. Lees meer
How do we learn to live with grief when healing takes longer than we hoped?
Author and advocate Marisa Renee Lee learned about grief early, watching her mother move through years of illness before losing her to cancer. Years later, after becoming a mother herself and developing long COVID, Marisa found herself facing a new kind of uncertainty. One that reshaped her body, her work, and her understanding of hope. In this conversation, she reflects on grief, chronic illness, faith, joy, and the healing that becomes possible when we stop pretending we can carry everything alone.
Key ideas in this episode:
Choose Realistic Hope Hope does not have to mean pretending everything will be fine; it can mean committing to the next faithful action toward a better place.
Make Space to Heal Marisa challenges a productivity-driven culture by reminding us that grief, illness, and uncertainty require time, attention, and real support.
Ask for Help Healing becomes possible when we name our limits honestly and let other people carry pieces of the burden with us.
Let Joy Do Its Work Laughter, beauty, concerts, television, family stories, and small daily pleasures can create room for the brain and body to process pain.
Honor the Body’s Grief Loss is not just emotional; grief can affect the brain, weaken the immune system, and make ordinary tasks feel impossible.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Marisa Renee Lee
The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more!
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainab…
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The Subtext: Talking about 'Paradise' & Nuclear War
17 juni 2026 · 47 min
When the world feels like it's ending, some people buy bunkers, some people move to Argentina, some people stop reading the news entirely. How should Christians behave in the face of existential dread? Lees meer
Paradise got renewed for a third season, and we're using it as an excuse to ask a question we've all been quietly avoiding: how do you cope when the threat is real? In this episode, Savannah and Lee dig into a Hulu thriller about who gets saved when civilization collapses, Annie Jacobsen's minute-by-minute account of nuclear war, a billionaire building escape routes out of the country he helped shape, and one man in Ohio who decided the only sane response was to stop paying attention entirely. What do we do with existential dread? For those of us with faith, what are we actually supposed to do with it?
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Kevin Morby
Nuclear War: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen
Paradise on Hulu
The Truman Show
Allison Russell on No Small Endeavor
Meditations for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman
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266: Marisa Renee Lee: Grief, Uncertainty, and the Work of Realistic Hope
15 juni 2026 · 51 min
How do we learn to live with grief when healing takes longer than we hoped? Lees meer
Author and advocate Marisa Renee Lee learned about grief early, watching her mother move through years of illness before losing her to cancer. Years later, after becoming a mother herself and developing long COVID, Marisa found herself facing a new kind of uncertainty. One that reshaped her body, her work, and her understanding of hope. In this conversation, she reflects on grief, chronic illness, faith, joy, and the healing that becomes possible when we stop pretending we can carry everything alone.
Key ideas in this episode:
Choose Realistic Hope Hope does not have to mean pretending everything will be fine; it can mean committing to the next faithful action toward a better place.
Make Space to Heal Marisa challenges a productivity-driven culture by reminding us that grief, illness, and uncertainty require time, attention, and real support.
Ask for Help Healing becomes possible when we name our limits honestly and let other people carry pieces of the burden with us.
Let Joy Do Its Work Laughter, beauty, concerts, television, family stories, and small daily pleasures can create room for the brain and body to process pain.
Honor the Body’s Grief Loss is not just emotional; grief can affect the brain, weaken the immune system, and make ordinary tasks feel impossible.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Marisa Renee Lee
The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more!
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast th…
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265: Unabridged Interview: Hunter Prosper
12 juni 2026 · 1 uur 1 min
This is our unabridged interview with Hunter Prosper. Lees meer
What happens when caring for others costs you the ability to feel?
During the COVID pandemic, Hunter spent his days caring for critically ill patients in the ICU. Over time, the emotional weight became overwhelming. He found himself pulling away not only from patients, but from friends, family, and even his own emotions.
Then one day, desperate to reconnect with the world, he walked outside and struck up a conversation with a stranger. That simple interaction eventually became the viral project Stories From A Stranger, a series built around honest conversations with ordinary people about love, fear, meaning, loss, and what it means to be human.
Key Ideas
Silence Can Heal Hunter explains why meaningful listening often requires resisting the urge to interrupt, fix, or fill the silence.
Connection Requires Vulnerability After COVID burnout left him emotionally numb, Hunter discovered that healing meant risking closeness again instead of avoiding it.
Every Person Wants To Be Seen From ICU patients to strangers in the park, Hunter’s work reveals how deeply people long to feel heard and understood.
Shared Emotions Unite Us While our stories differ, Hunter argues that emotions like grief, anxiety, love, and hope connect every human being.
Authenticity Builds Confidence Hunter reflects on how embracing vulnerability — rather than performing strength — made him more grounded and secure in himself.
Conversation Can Restore Humanity Through thousands of interviews, Hunter has learned that authentic conversation can transform loneliness into community and fear into compassion.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Hunter Prosper
The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaA…
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The Subtext: America’s UFC Freedom Fight
10 juni 2026 · 41 min
When a cage fight lands on the White House lawn, it's worth asking… what exactly are we celebrating? Lees meer
On June 14, 2026 (Flag Day, Trump's 80th birthday, and the eve of America's 250th anniversary) the White House South Lawn will host something it never has before: a UFC cage fight. We're going beneath the spectacle to ask what it actually means when the symbols we use to celebrate a nation reveal something uncomfortable about who that nation has become.
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Nuclear War: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen
Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke
Meditations for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman
Kin by Tayari Jones
Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok
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265: Hunter Prosper: An ICU Nurse on Trauma and the Healing Power of Listening
8 juni 2026 · 52 min
What happens when caring for others costs you the ability to feel? Lees meer
During the COVID pandemic, Hunter spent his days caring for critically ill patients in the ICU. Over time, the emotional weight became overwhelming. He found himself pulling away not only from patients, but from friends, family, and even his own emotions.
Then one day, desperate to reconnect with the world, he walked outside and struck up a conversation with a stranger. That simple interaction eventually became the viral project Stories From A Stranger, a series built around honest conversations with ordinary people about love, fear, meaning, loss, and what it means to be human.
Key Ideas
Silence Can Heal Hunter explains why meaningful listening often requires resisting the urge to interrupt, fix, or fill the silence.
Connection Requires Vulnerability After COVID burnout left him emotionally numb, Hunter discovered that healing meant risking closeness again instead of avoiding it.
Every Person Wants To Be Seen From ICU patients to strangers in the park, Hunter’s work reveals how deeply people long to feel heard and understood.
Shared Emotions Unite Us While our stories differ, Hunter argues that emotions like grief, anxiety, love, and hope connect every human being.
Authenticity Builds Confidence Hunter reflects on how embracing vulnerability — rather than performing strength — made him more grounded and secure in himself.
Conversation Can Restore Humanity Through thousands of interviews, Hunter has learned that authentic conversation can transform loneliness into community and fear into compassion.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Hunter Prosper
The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more!
Join NSE+ — our subs…
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264: Unabridged Interview: Norman Wirzba
5 juni 2026 · 1 uur 17 min
This is our unabridged interview with Norman Wirzba. Lees meer
How does the pursuit of independence distort our understanding of the good life?
Before Norman Wirzba became a theologian, philosopher, and public intellectual, he was a farm boy in Southern Alberta, waking before sunrise to tend to the land and animals in his care, and he says that these early experiences working with the natural world taught him one essential lesson: life does not exist on our terms.
Now a professor at Duke University working at the intersection of theology, philosophy, and agrarian studies, Norman argues that modern culture has trapped us in an illusion of self-reliance, when the key to a good life may simply require a deeper understanding of our place in what he calls the meshwork world.
Key Ideas:
See Beyond Self-Sufficiency Norman challenges the modern myth of the isolated individual and invites us to recognize how deeply our lives depend upon others.
Let Care Shape Your Life Farming taught Norman that flourishing begins with patience, attentiveness, and responsibility toward living things.
Rediscover the Sacred Ordinary Everyday realities, from baking a pie to tending animals, become windows into gratitude, beauty, and shared human creativity.
Resist the Culture of Control The pursuit of frictionless living and technological mastery can erode our capacity for compassion, humility, and wonder.
Practice Rest Rest is not just about stopping work, but making time to cherish one another.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Norman Wirzba
The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more!
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Yo…
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The Subtext: Yesteryear and the Trad Wife Movement with Beth Allison Barr
3 juni 2026 · 43 min
We have a substitute teacher on today's episode! Lee is out of town, so Savannah called upon All the Buried Women co-host Beth Allison Barr to step in. The trad wife dream might look beautiful on camera, but what if you actually have to live it? Lees meer
What happens when a woman who sells the fantasy of "traditional" womanhood wakes up and has to actually live it? Using Yesteryear as a jumping-off point, Savannah sits down with historian and author Beth Allison Barr to dissect the trad wife movement, what it promises, what it erases, and what women actually lost before they had the legal right to say no.
Things we mentioned in this episode:
All the Buried Women podcast
For All Mankind on Apple TV
A Rome of One's Own by Emma Southon
Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke
Meditations for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman
The Five by Hallie Rubenhold
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264: Norman Wirzba: The Myth of Self-Sufficiency and the Good Life
1 juni 2026 · 52 min
This is our unabridged interview with Norman Wirzba. Lees meer
How does the pursuit of independence distort our understanding of the good life?
Before Norman Wirzba became a theologian, philosopher, and public intellectual, he was a farm boy in Southern Alberta, waking before sunrise to tend to the land and animals in his care, and he says that these early experiences working with the natural world taught him one essential lesson: life does not exist on our terms.
Now a professor at Duke University working at the intersection of theology, philosophy, and agrarian studies, Norman argues that modern culture has trapped us in an illusion of self-reliance, when the key to a good life may simply require a deeper understanding of our place in what he calls the meshwork world.
Key Ideas:
See Beyond Self-Sufficiency Norman challenges the modern myth of the isolated individual and invites us to recognize how deeply our lives depend upon others.
Let Care Shape Your Life Farming taught Norman that flourishing begins with patience, attentiveness, and responsibility toward living things.
Rediscover the Sacred Ordinary Everyday realities, from baking a pie to tending animals, become windows into gratitude, beauty, and shared human creativity.
Resist the Culture of Control The pursuit of frictionless living and technological mastery can erode our capacity for compassion, humility, and wonder.
Practice Rest Rest is not just about stopping work, but making time to cherish one another.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Norman Wirzba
The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit IGottaAsk.com to learn more!
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263: Unabridged Interview: Joe Vukov
29 mei 2026 · 1 uur 13 min
This is our unabridged interview with Joe Vukov. Lees meer
What if AI’s greatest revelation isn’t about technology at all — but about us?
Philosopher Joe Vukov joins Lee C. Camp for a conversation about artificial intelligence, human dignity, and the spiritual dangers hidden beneath our technological optimism. Drawing from philosophy, theology, neuroscience, and Catholic social thought, Vukov argues that AI exposes how modern culture has already reduced human beings to data processors, forgetting the importance of bodies, relationships, and rooted human presence.
To hear more on this topic from Joe, along with other scholars and experts in the technology space, listen to our two-part series: The Human Cost of AI
Part 1 - Money, Sex, and Tools https://pod.link/1513178238/episode/NjgzOWVkY2MtMmQzOC0xMWYxLTkzOTYtY2Y0MDMzMjMyMTVh?view=apps&sort=popularity
Part 2 - What Is It All For?
https://pod.link/1513178238/episode/MWE5OGRlOWEtMzJjNy0xMWYxLTlhNzEtYWI0YzMzZDZjOWI2?view=apps&sort=popularity
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for part one of our AI series
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral ph…
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The Subtext: Ask Us Anything
27 mei 2026 · 50 min
You asked, we answered. From how Savannah and Lee became friends to whether Jesus is God (no big deal), this episode covers the questions YOU asked. We get into faith and doubt, how to stay hopeful when the world feels chaotic, what it looks like to do ministry well right now, and the books that have shaped us most spiritually. Lees meer
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Mere Christianity by CS Lewis
New Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton
Markings by Dag Hammarskjöld
The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence
The Politics of Jesus by John Howard Yoder
In Good Company: The Church as Polis by Stanley Hauerwas
Bonus: Stanley Hauerwas on No Small Endeavor
Brother to a Dragonfly by Will D. Campbell
Who Will Be A Witness byDrew G.I. Hart
The Cross and the Lynching Tree by James Cone
Acts: A Theological Commentary on the Bible by Willie James Jennings
Emilie Maureen Townes books
A More Christlike Word by Bradley Jersak
Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God by Brian Zahnd
Telling Secrets by Frederick Buechner
Mighty Poplar
Stephen Wilson Jr.
The Human Cost of AI Part 1 - No Small Endeavor
The Human Cost of AI Part 2 - No Small Endeavor
The Friendship Recession - The Subtext
Your Favorite Musician Isn't Real - The Subtext
How the Story Ends by Savannah Locke
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Hinge Virtues, Shame, and Skydiving: Lee Camp on With & For
25 mei 2026 · 50 min
Today we're sharing something a little different: a conversation Lee recently had as a guest on the With & For podcast with Dr. Pam King. Pam is a developmental psychologist, Executive Director of the Thrive Center for Human Development at Fuller Seminary, and an ordained Presbyterian minister. Like Lee, she has spent much of her career exploring how faith, spirituality, and virtue can help people live with purpose, love, and meaning. Their conversation centers on the classical cardinal virtues, what Lee calls the "hinge virtues": prudence, justice, courage, and temperance. Lee unpacks how these ancient philosophical ideas can be broken down into concrete daily habits and practices, including the story of a student whose work with the virtues led her to jump out of an airplane and rebuild her relationship with her mother. Pam and Lee also get personal, talking honestly about the work of moving through shame and why healthy vulnerability is essential to our closest relationships. We're grateful to Dr. Pam King and the With & For team for letting us share this episode with you. If it resonates, go follow With & For wherever you get your podcasts.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Lees meer -
262: Unabridged Interview: Linley Dixon
22 mei 2026 · 1 uur 4 min
This is our unabridged interview with Linley Dixon. Lees meer
What does it mean to live a good life in a world increasingly disconnected from the land that sustains it?
Before Linley Dixon became co-director of the Real Organic Project, she spent years in academia studying plant pathology and soil microorganisms, peering through microscopes at the unseen relationships beneath our feet. But a passion for organic farming and the well-being of workers and the planet led her into her current role as an activist in a farmer-led movement working to restore integrity to the practice of Organic Farming.
Linley offers us a vision of human flourishing rooted not in speed, efficiency, or endless consumption, but in patience, stewardship, and radical generosity. She explains why healthy soil lies at the heart of authentic organic farming, why the word “radical” is actually a botanical term, and why she believes true change begins when ordinary people are willing to tell difficult truths.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Linley Dixon
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sc…
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The Subtext: The Pitt: What We Get Wrong About Addiction with Erin Calipari
20 mei 2026 · 47 min
Dr. Erin Calipari thinks we're getting a lot wrong about addiction, so she and her lab are working to change that by conducting research that could save lives and destigmatize unhelpful narratives. In this episode, we dig into The Pitt's portrayal of high-functioning addiction and what it gets right that most TV gets wrong. Lees meer
We sit down with Dr. Erin Calipari to unpack what addiction actually is at the molecular level, and why so much of what society believes about it is not just wrong, but harmful. From the brain's hijacked learning systems to the gender-specific realities of addiction, Dr. Calipari breaks down the gap between cutting-edge science and the policies, stigmas, and drug wars shaping real lives.
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Follow Erin!
Euphoria on HBO
Slow Horses on Apple TV
Flight of Passage by Rinker Buck
Down the Drain by Julia Fox
The Handmaid's Tale on Hulu
The Pitt on HBO
Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok
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262: Linley Dixon: A Good Life Grows in Healthy Soil
18 mei 2026 · 52 min
What does it mean to live a good life in a world increasingly disconnected from the land that sustains it? Lees meer
Before Linley Dixon became co-director of the Real Organic Project, she spent years in academia studying plant pathology and soil microorganisms, peering through microscopes at the unseen relationships beneath our feet. But a passion for organic farming and the well-being of workers and the planet led her into her current role as an activist in a farmer-led movement working to restore integrity to the practice of Organic Farming.
Linley offers us a vision of human flourishing rooted not in speed, efficiency, or endless consumption, but in patience, stewardship, and radical generosity. She explains why healthy soil lies at the heart of authentic organic farming, why the word “radical” is actually a botanical term, and why she believes true change begins when ordinary people are willing to tell difficult truths.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Linley Dixon
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp
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261: Unabridged Interview: Tish Harrison Warren
15 mei 2026 · 1 uur 6 min
This is our unabridged interview with Tish Harrison Warren. Lees meer
What if burnout isn’t failure, but an invitation to become more fully human?
Back in 2023, Anglican priest and author Tish Harrison Warren hit a wall. She was exhausted by her work on faith and public discourse at the New York Times, and discouraged by the constant controversy that came hand in hand with writing about religion in a public forum. So she left. What followed was a 2 year exploration of burnout in modern culture, and her most recent book: What Grows in Weary Lands. In it, she explores the wisdom of early Christian teaching, and the many ways that embracing limits, difficulty, and the “arduous good” can lead to deeper meaning and authentic human flourishing.
Key Ideas:
-Embrace the Arduous Good: The most meaningful parts of life (relationships, faith, vocation,) are often difficult, and their difficulty is part of their inherent value.
-Grow Roots Through Limits: Depth comes not from endless options but from accepting constraints and staying present long enough for roots to form.
-Practice Faith as Craft: Like any meaningful discipline, faith is shaped through daily habits and persistence.
-Walk Toward the Desert: Seasons of burnout and spiritual dryness are not failures but invitations to deeper growth and transformation.
-Choose the Local Act of Love: Real flourishing happens in embodied, everyday acts of care, not abstract ideals or grand ambition.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Tish Harrison Warren
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose,…
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The Subtext: America Reads the Bible
13 mei 2026 · 44 min
What happens when the Bible becomes a stage prop for national identity instead of a text that interrogates it? Lees meer
This episode explores “America Reads the Bible,” a high-profile event where political leaders, actors, and influencers recited Scripture from the nation’s capital, and, drawing on Bonhoeffer’s warning about reading the Bible for ourselves instead of against ourselves, Savannah and Lee examine how the same text is used to fuel both nationalism and its critique, alongside debates like Tennessee’s Ten Commandments bill.
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Endurance by Alfred Lansing
The Wright Brothers by David McCullough
Flight of Passage: A Memoir by Rinker Buck
The Congruent Life by C.E. Jarnagin
Running Point on Netflix
Slow Horses on Apple TV
Eboo Patel on No Small Endeavor
AJ Levine on No Small Endeavor Live
Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter
Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
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261: Tish Harrison Warren: Your Burnout May Be An Invitation to a Meaningful Life
11 mei 2026 · 51 min
What if burnout isn’t failure, but an invitation to become more fully human? Lees meer
Back in 2023, Anglican priest and author Tish Harrison Warren hit a wall. She was exhausted by her work on faith and public discourse at the New York Times, and discouraged by the constant controversy that came hand in hand with writing about religion in a public forum. So she left. What followed was a 2 year exploration of burnout in modern culture, and her most recent book: What Grows in Weary Lands. In it, she explores the wisdom of early Christian teaching, and the many ways that embracing limits, difficulty, and the “arduous good” can lead to deeper meaning and authentic human flourishing.
Key Ideas:
-Embrace the Arduous Good: The most meaningful parts of life (relationships, faith, vocation,) are often difficult, and their difficulty is part of their inherent value.
-Grow Roots Through Limits: Depth comes not from endless options but from accepting constraints and staying present long enough for roots to form.
-Practice Faith as Craft: Like any meaningful discipline, faith is shaped through daily habits and persistence.
-Walk Toward the Desert: Seasons of burnout and spiritual dryness are not failures but invitations to deeper growth and transformation.
-Choose the Local Act of Love: Real flourishing happens in embodied, everyday acts of care, not abstract ideals or grand ambition.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Tish Harrison Warren
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and ch…
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260: Unabridged Interview: Nicholas Ma
8 mei 2026 · 1 uur 6 min
This is our unabridged interview with Nicholas Ma. Lees meer
What if the goal of disagreement isn’t to win, but to stay in relationship?
After producing the smash hit documentary “Won’t You Be My Neighbor,” on the life of Fred Rogers, filmmaker Nicholas Ma had one lingering question: Where is the kindness and acceptance that Mr. Rogers embodied in today’s divided world? He found the answer in his latest documentary, Leap of Faith, which follows 12 pastors as they navigate the deep theological and cultural challenges that divide them. Nicholas discusses the process of making the film, the unlikely friendships that developed, and the quiet power of sitting with another person’s pain.
Key Ideas:
-Love Beyond Understanding
True friendship grows when we learn to love the parts in others that we cannot understand.
-Stay Present in Pain
Transformation often begins not by fixing or debating, but by sitting with another’s pain and bearing witness together.
-Choose Relationship Over Certainty
Clinging to certainty can make our worldview fragile, while embracing the unknown creates space for growth, faith, and connection.
-Endure the Process of Change
Meaningful change requires time; like any deep human process, it cannot be rushed without losing its depth.
-Practice Proximate Care
Human flourishing begins locally—by loving our neighbors well and cultivating communities of care where we are.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Nicholas Ma
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and c…
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The Subtext: Noah Kahan's New Record Will Make You Go to Therapy Again
6 mei 2026 · 46 min
Noah Kahan’s The Great Divide is a brutally honest soundtrack to growing up, drifting away, and figuring out how to make peace with the place you come from. Lees meer
This episode dives into The Great Divide, the latest record from Noah Kahan, and unpacks its themes of home, relationships, love, and friendship. In it, they explore their own connections to their hometowns, Wendell Berry’s hot take about automobiles, and Kahan’s own eschatology (that he may or may not know about).
Things we mentioned in this episode:
The Great Divide album by Noah Kahan
The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon
Alabama I Am Bound by Walker Burroughs
Out of Your Car, Off Your Horse by Wendell Berry
Against the Machine by Paul Kingsnorth
Center Church by Tim Keller
Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter
Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack
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260: Nicholas Ma: What to Do With the People You Love But Don’t Agree With
4 mei 2026 · 51 min
What if the goal of disagreement isn’t to win, but to stay in relationship? Lees meer
After producing the smash hit documentary “Won’t You Be My Neighbor,” on the life of Fred Rogers, filmmaker Nicholas Ma had one lingering question: Where is the kindness and acceptance that Mr. Rogers embodied in today’s divided world? He found the answer in his latest documentary, Leap of Faith, which follows 12 pastors as they navigate the deep theological and cultural challenges that divide them. Nicholas discusses the process of making the film, the unlikely friendships that developed, and the quiet power of sitting with another person’s pain.
Key Ideas:
-Love Beyond Understanding
True friendship grows when we learn to love the parts in others that we cannot understand.
-Stay Present in Pain
Transformation often begins not by fixing or debating, but by sitting with another’s pain and bearing witness together.
-Choose Relationship Over Certainty
Clinging to certainty can make our worldview fragile, while embracing the unknown creates space for growth, faith, and connection.
-Endure the Process of Change
Meaningful change requires time; like any deep human process, it cannot be rushed without losing its depth.
-Practice Proximate Care
Human flourishing begins locally—by loving our neighbors well and cultivating communities of care where we are.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Nicholas Ma
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the …
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259: Unabridged Interview: Kristin T. Lee
1 mei 2026 · 1 uur 5 min
This is our unabridged interview with Kristin T. Lee. Lees meer
What happens when we question the faith that formed us?
Dr. Kristin T. Lee, physician and author of We Mend with Gold: An Immigrant Daughter’s Reckoning with American Christianity, reflects on her journey as a Chinese American navigating faith and identity in the immigrant church of her youth. In this conversation, she explores the beauty and complexity of immigrant communities, the unconscious bias that can undermine true belonging, and the courageous work of reconstructing a more authentic and life-giving spirituality. Together, we consider what it means to pursue faith and community in a fractured world.
Key Ideas:
Embrace Complex Identity Authentic living begins by integrating, not erasing, the contradictions that exist between one's culture, faith, and personal history.
Question Inherited Faith Honest spiritual growth often means examining what we’ve been taught and discerning for ourselves how those ideas might lead to true flourishing.
Redefine What’s “Normal” Cultural norms and unconscious bias often hide power and privilege, and naming them opens the door to deeper healing and justice.
Practice Honest Community Flourishing relationships depend on vulnerability, where hidden pain can be shared and transformed in community.
Resist the Endless Climb The pursuit of the American Dream can rob us of true meaning and purpose if we don’t also consider the people it leaves behind.
Find Beauty in Brokenness Like kintsugi, a meaningful life is not about avoiding fractures, but allowing them to be mended into something more whole and honest.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Kristin T. Lee
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Thro…
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The Subtext: Netflix is Boring Because of Our Short Atten—
29 april 2026 · 33 min
Are our shrinking attention spans rewriting the rules of storytelling? Lees meer
This week on The Subtext, we dig into the claim that streaming platforms like Netflix are deliberately dumbing down storytelling to accommodate distracted viewers. What is being lost when stories are engineered for half-watching? Are we shaping content around distraction, or training ourselves to expect it? And in a world where story is increasingly reduced to “content,” what does it mean to tell something true, meaningful, and worth paying attention to?
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Trust Me on Netflix
Waiting for God by Simone Weil
Jefferson Fisher on Diary of a CEO
Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok
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259: Kristin T. Lee: An Immigrant Daughter’s Reckoning with Faith and Identity
27 april 2026 · 52 min
What happens when we question the faith that formed us? Lees meer
Dr. Kristin T. Lee, physician and author of We Mend with Gold: An Immigrant Daughter’s Reckoning with American Christianity, reflects on her journey as a Chinese American navigating faith and identity in the immigrant church of her youth. In this conversation, she explores the beauty and complexity of immigrant communities, the unconscious bias that can undermine true belonging, and the courageous work of reconstructing a more authentic and life-giving spirituality. Together, we consider what it means to pursue faith and community in a fractured world.
Key Ideas:
Embrace Complex Identity Authentic living begins by integrating, not erasing, the contradictions that exist between one's culture, faith, and personal history.
Question Inherited Faith Honest spiritual growth often means examining what we’ve been taught and discerning for ourselves how those ideas might lead to true flourishing.
Redefine What’s “Normal” Cultural norms and unconscious bias often hide power and privilege, and naming them opens the door to deeper healing and justice.
Practice Honest Community Flourishing relationships depend on vulnerability, where hidden pain can be shared and transformed in community.
Resist the Endless Climb The pursuit of the American Dream can rob us of true meaning and purpose if we don’t also consider the people it leaves behind.
Find Beauty in Brokenness Like kintsugi, a meaningful life is not about avoiding fractures, but allowing them to be mended into something more whole and honest.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Kristin T. Lee
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, ph…
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258: Unabridged Interview: Shankar Vedantam
24 april 2026 · 55 min
This is our unabridged interview with Shankar Vedantam. Lees meer
We all like to believe that we live our lives rationally, deliberately, and consciously. But what if our conscious decision-making is just the tip of the iceberg?
“ I feel like I have a full picture of what's happening inside my own mind,” says Shankar Vedantam. But it turns out “there is a large portion of our mind that's working outside of our conscious awareness.”
Shankar founded Hidden Brain Media in order to teach people what science has uncovered about our brains. In this episode, he discusses why we’re not as autonomous as we think we are, and the profound implications for the ways we act, think, and live.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Shankar Vedantam
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
The Subtext: God Had a Big Week in Pop Culture
22 april 2026 · 51 min
From a Gen Z grunge pop artist’s critique of Bible interpretation to politics to the Artemis II mission, God had a big week in pop culture. Lees meer
This week on The Subtext, we unpack a wave of God-talk across pop culture, from Sofia Isella’s haunting critique of biblical “context,” to Paula White-Cain’s eyebrow-raising comparison of Trump to Jesus, to Perez Hilton’s post-near-death approach to scripture. We also zoom out (literally!) with a powerful Easter message from the Artemis II crew that reframes faith, humanity, and our place in the universe.
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Endurance by Alfred Lansing
The Wright Brothers by David McCullough
The Monkey Wrench Gang by Edward Abbey
Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey
There There by Tommy Orange
Cross Vision by Gregory A. Boyd
Jesus was a Feminist by Leonard Swidler
Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter
Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack
Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com
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258: Shankar Vedantam: Hidden Brain (Best of NSE)
20 april 2026 · 52 min
We all like to believe that we live our lives rationally, deliberately, and consciously. But what if our conscious decision-making is just the tip of the iceberg? Lees meer
“ I feel like I have a full picture of what's happening inside my own mind,” says Shankar Vedantam. But it turns out “there is a large portion of our mind that's working outside of our conscious awareness.”
Shankar founded Hidden Brain Media in order to teach people what science has uncovered about our brains. In this episode, he discusses why we’re not as autonomous as we think we are, and the profound implications for the ways we act, think, and live.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Shankar Vedantam
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
257: Unabridged Interview: Rosalind Picard
17 april 2026 · 1 uur 12 min
This is our unabridged interview with Rosalind Picard. Lees meer
What if the technologies we build to serve us begin to quietly shape who we become?
As part of our series The Human Cost of AI, Rosalind Picard offers a profound window into both the promise and the peril of artificial intelligence. A pioneer in affective computing, her work sits at the intersection of neuroscience, ethics, and the search for meaning raising urgent questions about human dignity, embodiment, and care. We’re sharing the full, unabridged conversation between Rosalind Picard and Lee recorded live at the Baylor Symposium on Faith & Culture: Technology and the Human Person in the Age of Al.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode 2 of The Human Cost of AI
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
The Subtext: Should the Church Have Reputation Managers?
15 april 2026 · 42 min
What happens when a church starts thinking like a brand, and hires people to protect its image? Lees meer
In this episode, we explore the rise of reputation management inside religious institutions, starting with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its growing ecosystem of influencers, media strategy, and image control. From the “second Mormon moment” on social media to The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, we ask what it means when faith communities adopt the tools of PR and branding. Along the way, we look at how reputation management can shape not just perception, but truth, connecting it to broader questions of power, storytelling, and what gets protected (or buried) in the name of a larger mission, including the complicated legacy of figures like Cesar Chavez. When reputation matters most, who pays the price?
Things we mentioned in this episode:
New Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton
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257: The Human Cost of AI: What Is It All For?
13 april 2026 · 52 min
We’re building smarter, faster tools every day, but are they helping us live better lives or just accelerating us in the wrong direction? Lees meer
In part two of The Human Cost of AI, Lee C. Camp shifts from diagnosing the forces behind the AI revolution to discerning how we might live well within it. Drawing on voices from neuroscience, theology, and philosophy, this episode explores three essential questions around purpose, human dignity, and agency. At stake is nothing less than authentic human flourishing in a technological age.
Guests in this episode: Carissa Carter, Scott Doorley, Josh Brake, Rosalind Picard, Baratunde Thurston, Joe Vukov, and Carlos Whittaker.
Key Ideas:
-Clarify Your Purpose In a culture obsessed with speed and efficiency, we must ask why we are using AI and whether it serves meaningful living or misdirected progress.
-Reimagine What’s Human As machines replicate language and reasoning, we are invited to rediscover human dignity through embodiment and relationship.
-Practice Courageous Agency Even without control over systems, we can resist, choose differently, and cultivate habits that align technology with the common good.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode 2 of The Human Cost of AI
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & e…
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256: Unabridged Interview: Josh Brake
10 april 2026 · 1 uur 20 min
This is our unabridged interview with Josh Brake. Lees meer
What if the tools shaping our future are also reshaping our humanity?
As part of our series The Human Cost of AI, Josh Brake stands out as a uniquely thoughtful voice, bringing together engineering, philosophy, and theology to ask deeper questions about technology and human flourishing. We wanted to bring you the full, unabridged conversation that Josh and Lee had. This is a rich and honest exploration of what it means to live wisely, faithfully, and humanly in an age of artificial intelligence.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode 1 of The Human Cost of AI
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp
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The Subtext: Everyone Hates Poetry
8 april 2026 · 57 min
Lee and Savannah welcome a guest on this week’s episode to discuss why everyone hates poetry! In the hot seat is professor and poet Donovan McAbee, who recently published Holy the Body, a collection of poems exploring loss, grief, and doubt. Together, they talk about the beauty of uncertainty and how poetry can be the translator of life’s darkest experiences. If you liked the selected poems McAbee read on this episode, make sure to pick up a copy of Holy the Body! Lees meer
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Holy the Body by Donovan McAbee
Selected Poems by Seamus Heaney
Endurance by Alfred Lansing
The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon
Viola Davis on Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Falling by James L. Dickey
Praying Drunk by Andrew Hudgins
Models of the Church by Avery Dulles
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256: The Human Cost of AI: Money, Sex, and Tools
6 april 2026 · 54 min
What if the greatest danger of AI isn’t that it becomes human, but that it reshapes what it means to be one? Lees meer
In part one of this series, we explore artificial intelligence through a sobering insight: every ship we build also creates the possibility of a shipwreck. The question is not whether AI will save us or destroy us, but how our own formation may already be the collateral damage of its rise.
To trace the human cost of AI, we follow three fault lines: tools, sex, and money. We examine how these technologies shape our habits and desires, and how they are shaped by the systems of power we live within. Along the way, we hear from leading scholars and technologists, including computer scientist Josh Brake, philosopher Joe Vukov, MIT professor Rosalind Picard, journalist Garrett Graff, and data scientist Rumman Chowdhury.
Together, they challenge the idea that AI is merely a neutral tool, revealing how it quietly directs our attention, relationships, and sense of purpose and inviting us to reconsider what it means to live well and remain human, in an age of powerful machines.
Key Ideas:
-Rethink “Just a Tool” Technologies are never neutral; their design subtly shapes our habits, attention, and even our sense of agency.
-Ask Who You’re Becoming The deeper question isn’t what we use AI for, but how it forms our character and communities over time.
-Resist the Illusion of Understanding AI systems can mimic human thought, but they do not understand meaning—reminding us to value uniquely human forms of knowing.
-Guard Your Desire AI’s ability to simulate intimacy risks reshaping our longings, training us toward convenience over genuine relationship.
-Follow the Incentives Behind every AI system are economic forces that prioritize engagement and profit, often at the expense of human flourishing.
-Recover a Fuller Humanity Being human is more than intelligence—it includes embodiment, relationships, and moral responsibility that no machine can replicate.
Show Not…
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255: Unabridged Interview: Matt Lee
3 april 2026 · 1 uur 19 min
This is our unabridged interview with Matt Lee. Lees meer
What if flourishing isn’t something you achieve, but something you share?
Sociologist and human flourishing scholar Matthew T. Lee reflects on his unlikely journey from studying homicide to exploring love as a social practice. Drawing on research, philosophy, and lived experience, he challenges individualistic definitions of success and offers a richer vision rooted in community, dialogue, and mutual care. He insists that all flourishing is mutual.
Key Ideas:
-Flourish Together or Not at All True human flourishing is mutual, it cannot exist at the expense of others or the world around us.
-From Isolation to Interdependence His “forest” metaphor reveals that our lives are deeply interconnected, sharing resources and meaning beneath the surface.
-Love as a Social Practice Flourishing grows through lived practices of love, not just ideas, especially in restorative justice and everyday relationships.
-Rethink Success and Happiness The Global Flourishing study has found that material wealth and personal satisfaction alone are insufficient; flourishing includes virtue, relationships, and contribution to others.
-Dialogue Over Monologue Transformation begins when we move beyond certainty and enter into genuine dialogue that reshapes how we see others and ourselves.
-Build Small Communities of Hope Change doesn’t start at scale; it begins with small, intentional communities practicing a better way of being human.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript for abridged episode with Matt Lee
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the soc…
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The Subtext: Is Social Media a Calling?
1 april 2026 · 49 min
Is being an influencer on social media a calling? Can public-facing work align with a life of service? In this episode, Savannah and Lee unpack a viral influencer video and explore what it means to have a dream, how it connects to vocation, and what it really means to make an impact in the world. Lees meer
Things we mentioned in this episode:
NYT Cooking Black Sesame Rice Krispies Treats
Dept. Q
Paradise
Cup of Tea by Kacey Musgraves
Who is My Enemy by Lee C. Camp
The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton
The Summer Day by Mary Oliver
Markings by Dag Hammarskjold
The Pretender by Jackson Browne
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255: Matt Lee: Why You Can't Flourish Alone
30 maart 2026 · 52 min
What if flourishing isn’t something you achieve, but something you share? Lees meer
Sociologist and human flourishing scholar Matthew T. Lee reflects on his unlikely journey from studying homicide to exploring love as a social practice. Drawing on research, philosophy, and lived experience, he challenges individualistic definitions of success and offers a richer vision rooted in community, dialogue, and mutual care. He insists that all flourishing is mutual.
Key Ideas:
-Flourish Together or Not at All True human flourishing is mutual, it cannot exist at the expense of others or the world around us.
-From Isolation to Interdependence His “forest” metaphor reveals that our lives are deeply interconnected, sharing resources and meaning beneath the surface.
-Love as a Social Practice Flourishing grows through lived practices of love, not just ideas, especially in restorative justice and everyday relationships.
-Rethink Success and Happiness The Global Flourishing study has found that material wealth and personal satisfaction alone are insufficient; flourishing includes virtue, relationships, and contribution to others.
-Dialogue Over Monologue Transformation begins when we move beyond certainty and enter into genuine dialogue that reshapes how we see others and ourselves.
-Build Small Communities of Hope Change doesn’t start at scale; it begins with small, intentional communities practicing a better way of being human.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript for abridged episode with Matt Lee
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, …
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254: Unabridged Interview: Laurie Santos
27 maart 2026 · 1 uur 5 min
This is our unabridged interview with Laurie Santos. Lees meer
Many of us spend years chasing the things we believe will make us happy, success, recognition, the next promotion, the perfect relationship, only to discover they don’t satisfy the way we expected.
Why are we so often wrong about what will make our lives better?
Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos, creator of the most popular course in Yale’s history, Psychology and the Good Life, joins Lee C. Camp to explore the science of well-being. Drawing from decades of research in psychology and happiness science, Santos explains why our minds often “miswant” things we think will make us happy, but won’t actually do so. We cover how social comparison continually moves the goal post of our satisfaction and why practices like gratitude, social connection, and self-compassion actually do move the needle on well-being.
Key Ideas
Correct Our “Miswanting”
Humans consistently mispredict what will make them happy, often overvaluing achievements, money, or status while underestimating the power of relationships, gratitude, and meaningful activity.
Practice the Bronze Mindset
Happiness often depends on our reference point; learning to focus on what we have rather than what we narrowly missed can transform how we experience success and disappointment.
Invest in Real Connection
Genuine social interaction—from deep friendships to small conversations with strangers—remains one of the strongest predictors of long-term well-being.
Embrace Negative Emotions as Signals
Feelings like sadness, loneliness, or overwhelm are not failures of happiness but important psychological signals that guide us toward needed changes.
Turn Knowledge Into Practice
Knowing the science of happiness isn’t enough; lasting flourishing comes through habits—small, repeated behaviors like gratitude, rest, and time affluence.
Take Baby Steps Toward Well-Being
Even small practices—ten minutes of meditation, a gratitude journal entry, or a meaningful con…
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The Subtext: WAR! Part TWO!
25 maart 2026 · 57 min
Back by popular demand! Class is back in session this week as Lee and Savannah walk through Dispensationalism for Dummies, Christian Nationalism, and Just War Tradition in light of our current moment. So grab your notebooks and pens because you’re going to need them! What do you think? Do we need a part 3? Lees meer
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Theo of Golden by Allen Levi
Lady Tremaine by Rachel Hochhauser
Man in the High Castle
The Just War Tradition by Daniel Bell
Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok
Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter
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254: Laurie Santos: The Science of Happiness (and How We Get It Wrong)
23 maart 2026 · 52 min
Many of us spend years chasing the things we believe will make us happy, success, recognition, the next promotion, the perfect relationship, only to discover they don’t satisfy the way we expected. Lees meer
Why are we so often wrong about what will make our lives better?
Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos, creator of the most popular course in Yale’s history, Psychology and the Good Life, joins Lee C. Camp to explore the science of well-being. Drawing from decades of research in psychology and happiness science, Santos explains why our minds often “miswant” things we think will make us happy, but won’t actually do so. We cover how social comparison continually moves the goal post of our satisfaction and why practices like gratitude, social connection, and self-compassion actually do move the needle on well-being.
Key Ideas
Correct Our “Miswanting”
Humans consistently mispredict what will make them happy, often overvaluing achievements, money, or status while underestimating the power of relationships, gratitude, and meaningful activity.
Practice the Bronze Mindset
Happiness often depends on our reference point; learning to focus on what we have rather than what we narrowly missed can transform how we experience success and disappointment.
Invest in Real Connection
Genuine social interaction—from deep friendships to small conversations with strangers—remains one of the strongest predictors of long-term well-being.
Embrace Negative Emotions as Signals
Feelings like sadness, loneliness, or overwhelm are not failures of happiness but important psychological signals that guide us toward needed changes.
Turn Knowledge Into Practice
Knowing the science of happiness isn’t enough; lasting flourishing comes through habits—small, repeated behaviors like gratitude, rest, and time affluence.
Take Baby Steps Toward Well-Being
Even small practices—ten minutes of meditation, a gratitude journal entry, or a meaningful conversation—can gradually shift our lives toward greater…