No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp
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237: Three Practices to Give You Hope
24 november 2025 · 51 min
When the headlines numb and the culture wars grind us down, what if hope isn’t a mood at all—but a practice you can do with your body, your friends, and your city? Lees meer
In this holiday special, Lee revisits four conversations to find practices of hope: meditation teacher Tara Brach on healing the “trance of unworthiness,” songwriter Tom Paxton on the folk community that fueled social change, marine biologist Ayana Elizabeth Johnson on climate imagination, and educator Sharon McMahon on everyday civic action. Together they offer three grounded practices—for self, for community, and for the common good—that help us act toward a more beautiful future.
Practice 1—Self: Tara Brach’s “two wings” of mindfulness and compassion help us befriend reality and begin change from within (“What is happening inside me right now? … Can I be with this?”).
Practice 2—Community: Tom Paxton’s Greenwich Village years show how laughter, critique, and shared craft create courage—and movements. Make something together offline and let belonging fuel hope.
Practice 3—Civic: Ayana Elizabeth Johnson invites a shift from apocalypse to imagination—joining others to scale solutions we already have; Sharon McMahon reminds us everyone can do something. Start local and “join something.”
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged holiday special with Tara Brach, Tom Paxton, Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, and Sharon McMahon
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order
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Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tick…
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236: Unabridged Interview: Lara Love Hardin
21 november 2025 · 1 uur 9 min
This is our unabridged interview with Lara Love Hardin. Lees meer
What if the opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety—but connection? How does a woman go from 32 felony charges to the New York Times bestseller list, lunches with Oprah, and a life devoted to healing?Lara Love Hardin—literary agent, author, and prison-reform advocate—recounts her descent into opioid and heroin addiction, the shame that followed, and the community that made restoration possible. She traces the path from a Santa Cruz jail to acclaimed collaborations with figures like Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama, and to her own bestselling memoir, The Many Lives of Mama Love. Listeners will hear how practices of community, meditation, and honest storytelling can transform compulsion into connection and purpose.
Key Ideas:
“The opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety, it’s connection”—why isolation fuels compulsion and how community begins to heal it.
Shame’s long shadow: from the “neighbor from hell” headline to reclaiming dignity—and why public humiliation rarely rehabilitates.
Skills for staying: meditation, naming emotions, and building a circle you can be messy with.
Rat Park revisited: an experiment with morphine and rats, why context and community change outcomes
From ghostwriter to guide: what Lara learned about forgiveness (and self-forgiveness) working with Archbishop Tutu and meeting the Dalai Lama.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Lara Love Hardin
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order
Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting BollAndBranch.com/NSE
AquaTru: Go to AquaTru.com and use promo code NSE
Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at piperandleaf.com
Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit Nationsu.edu/endeavor
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvill…
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The Subtext: The Gospel According to Billie Eilish
19 november 2025 · 55 min
In this episode, Savannah rounds up several posts her algorithm served her this week: an influencer from The Bachelor warning Christians not to watch Love Island, a pastor speaking about slavery in the Bible, Billie Eilish calling out billionaires, and a thread about SNAP benefits. Plus, a little conspiracy chat to close things out, courtesy of Kim Kardashian and the moon landing. Lees meer
Things we mentioned in this episode:
James by Percival Everett
Courage to be Disliked by Fumitake Koga and Ichiro Kishimi
The New Testament and the People of God by NT Wright
Truth Is Stranger Than It Used to Be by J. Richard Middleton and Brian J. Walsh
The Bible Is Not Enough by Scot McKnight
Poverty, by America by Matthew Desmond
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236: Lara Love Hardin: The Power of Community and Second Chances
17 november 2025 · 52 min
What if the opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety—but connection? How does a woman go from 32 felony charges to the New York Times bestseller list, lunches with Oprah, and a life devoted to healing?Lara Love Hardin—literary agent, author, and prison-reform advocate—recounts her descent into opioid and heroin addiction, the shame that followed, and the community that made restoration possible. She traces the path from a Santa Cruz jail to acclaimed collaborations with figures like Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama, and to her own bestselling memoir, The Many Lives of Mama Love. Listeners will hear how practices of community, meditation, and honest storytelling can transform compulsion into connection and purpose. Lees meer
Key Ideas:
“The opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety, it’s connection”—why isolation fuels compulsion and how community begins to heal it.
Shame’s long shadow: from the “neighbor from hell” headline to reclaiming dignity—and why public humiliation rarely rehabilitates.
Skills for staying: meditation, naming emotions, and building a circle you can be messy with.
Rat Park revisited: an experiment with morphine and rats, why context and community change outcomes
From ghostwriter to guide: what Lara learned about forgiveness (and self-forgiveness) working with Archbishop Tutu and meeting the Dalai Lama.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Lara Love Hardin
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order
Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting BollAndBranch.com/NSE
AquaTru: Go to AquaTru.com and use promo code NSE
Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at piperandleaf.com
Nations U: Use code ENDEAVOR50 when you visit Nationsu.edu/endeavor
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subs…
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235: Unabridged Interview: Rick Steves
14 november 2025 · 1 uur 8 min
This is our unabridged interview with Rick Steves. Lees meer
When Rick Steves was 14 years old, he stood in a park behind the Royal Palace in Oslo, watching families dot the grass in joyful togetherness. That was the moment. A dawning awareness that love — deep, sacrificial, attentive love — was not unique to his own family, but radiated across the globe. “This world is filled,” he remembers realizing, “with equally lovable little kids like me. Little children of God.” It was a quiet, early epiphany — but it would shape a life.
Today, Rick Steves is a household name. But before the bestselling travel guides and beloved PBS shows, before the advocacy work and global partnerships, there was a deeply formative journey: the 1978 “Hippie Trail” from Istanbul to Kathmandu. In this conversation with Lee C. Camp, Steves opens up about the raw diary he kept on that trip — a travel journal long forgotten, then rediscovered during COVID — and how that coming-of-age adventure sparked a lifelong vocation in travel education.
But this episode is more than a story about travel. It’s a meditation on what thoughtful travel can become: a political act, a spiritual practice, a tool for personal growth, a way of learning how to love our neighbors — whether they live across the street or across the sea. Rick Steves and Lee discuss how serendipity reveals virtue, how privilege demands stewardship, and why phrases like “have a safe trip” can be far less benign than we think.
Rick Steves insists that the best kind of travel complicates our assumptions and broadens our perspective — and that we are, all of us, global citizens. This is a conversation about habit formation, global empathy, and the practices that help us live a good life.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Rick Steves
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order
Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting …
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The Subtext: Nobody Wants This
12 november 2025 · 51 min
In this episode, Savannah and Lee dive into the Netflix series Nobody Wants This, a smart and surprisingly tender rom-com about an agnostic podcaster (Kristen Bell) and a rabbi (Adam Brody) trying to make love work across lines of faith and conviction. The conversation unfolds into bigger questions: How do we love people whose choices we disagree with? When does compromise in a relationship become self-betrayal? Can married people be friends with people of the opposite sex? And what does it mean to convert to a different religion? Lees meer
Things we mentioned in this episode:
The Chosen by Chaim Potok
My Name Is Asher Lev by Chaim Potok
Rainn Wilson on No Small Endeavor
Soul Boom by Rainn Wilson
Silence by Shusaku Endo
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235: Rick Steves: Travel as Spiritual Practice, Political Act, and Global Kinship
10 november 2025 · 52 min
When Rick Steves was 14 years old, he stood in a park behind the Royal Palace in Oslo, watching families dot the grass in joyful togetherness. That was the moment. A dawning awareness that love — deep, sacrificial, attentive love — was not unique to his own family, but radiated across the globe. “This world is filled,” he remembers realizing, “with equally lovable little kids like me. Little children of God.” It was a quiet, early epiphany — but it would shape a life. Lees meer
Today, Rick Steves is a household name. But before the bestselling travel guides and beloved PBS shows, before the advocacy work and global partnerships, there was a deeply formative journey: the 1978 “Hippie Trail” from Istanbul to Kathmandu. In this conversation with Lee C. Camp, Steves opens up about the raw diary he kept on that trip — a travel journal long forgotten, then rediscovered during COVID — and how that coming-of-age adventure sparked a lifelong vocation in travel education.
But this episode is more than a story about travel. It’s a meditation on what thoughtful travel can become: a political act, a spiritual practice, a tool for personal growth, a way of learning how to love our neighbors — whether they live across the street or across the sea. Rick Steves and Lee discuss how serendipity reveals virtue, how privilege demands stewardship, and why phrases like “have a safe trip” can be far less benign than we think.
Rick Steves insists that the best kind of travel complicates our assumptions and broadens our perspective — and that we are, all of us, global citizens. This is a conversation about habit formation, global empathy, and the practices that help us live a good life.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Rick Steves
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order
Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting BollAndBranch.com/NSE
AquaTru: Go to Aqua…
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234: Unabridged Interview: Pádraig Ó Tuama
7 november 2025 · 1 uur 8 min
This is our unabridged interview with Pádraig Ó Tuama. Lees meer
Pádraig Ó Tuama joins us for part three of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning?
It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?
Here Pádraig Ó Tuama--poet, theologian, and peacemaker--returns to No Small Endeavor for an expansive, searching conversation about words, wounds, witness, and wisdom. Former leader of Ireland’s Corrymeela peace and reconciliation community and host of Poetry Unbound, Ó Tuama draws from a deep well of personal and communal experience—where poetry is not just a literary act but a practice of survival, accountability, and attention.
Pádraig Ó Tuama reflects on growing up Catholic and gay in 1980s Ireland, and the complex legacy of faith, repression, and language he inherited—narratives that led him through years of exorcism and reparative “therapies.” With honesty and grace, he shares how poetry helped him reclaim agency and reframe pain, offering listeners a poignant example of how the “art of noticing” becomes a form of resistance and self-development. He reads moving excerpts from his recent collection Kitchen Hymns, including poems on belief, disillusionment, and friendship—each one an invitation to live more humanely and attentively.
Lee and Pádraig also delve into the mechanics of peacebuilding, the failures and contradictions within justice work, and how poetic language can uncover what politics often obscures. This episode is as much about being human as it is about art and theology: a tender meditation on how we live with purpose, create for the common good, and show up in the world with courage and compassion.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for our episode with Pádraig Ó Tuama
Thank you to our spo…
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The Subtext: All is Fair in Love And (Culture) War
5 november 2025 · 51 min
When Turning Point USA launches an “All-American Halftime Show” to rival Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl performance, it’s more than a musical critique, it’s a signal of a culture war. In this episode, Savannah and Lee unpack why something as ordinary as a halftime show can feel like a referendum on faith, family, and freedom. From the backlash that followed Reconstruction to Reagan’s alliance with the religious right, to today’s debates over gender, race, and education, the culture wars have always been about who stays in power. How can we interact with culture wars better? How should we treat “hot topic” issues? Lees meer
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Revisionist History: The Alabama Murders
The Sun Does Shine by Anthony Ray Hinton
James by Percival Everett
All the Way to the River by Elizabeth Gilbert
Awake by Jen Hatmaker
The Courage to be Disliked by Fumitake Koga and Ichiro Kishimi
The Many Lives of Mama Love by Lara Love Hardin
Bad Faith by Randall Balmer
Mere Discipleship by Lee C. Camp
All the Buried Women podcast
Ed Larson on No Small Endeavor
Randall Balmer on No Small Endeavor
Garrett Graff on No Small Endeavor
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234: Pádraig Ó Tuama: Poetry, and Making Peace, Bearing Witness and Being Human - Poetry Against the Dark
3 november 2025 · 52 min
Pádraig Ó Tuama joins us for part three of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? Lees meer
It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?
Here Pádraig Ó Tuama--poet, theologian, and peacemaker--returns to No Small Endeavor for an expansive, searching conversation about words, wounds, witness, and wisdom. Former leader of Ireland’s Corrymeela peace and reconciliation community and host of Poetry Unbound, Ó Tuama draws from a deep well of personal and communal experience—where poetry is not just a literary act but a practice of survival, accountability, and attention.
Pádraig Ó Tuama reflects on growing up Catholic and gay in 1980s Ireland, and the complex legacy of faith, repression, and language he inherited—narratives that led him through years of exorcism and reparative “therapies.” With honesty and grace, he shares how poetry helped him reclaim agency and reframe pain, offering listeners a poignant example of how the “art of noticing” becomes a form of resistance and self-development. He reads moving excerpts from his recent collection Kitchen Hymns, including poems on belief, disillusionment, and friendship—each one an invitation to live more humanely and attentively.
Lee and Pádraig also delve into the mechanics of peacebuilding, the failures and contradictions within justice work, and how poetic language can uncover what politics often obscures. This episode is as much about being human as it is about art and theology: a tender meditation on how we live with purpose, create for the common good, and show up in the world with courage and compassion.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for our episode with Pádraig Ó Tuama
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use…
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233: Unabridged Interview: Haleh Liza Gafori
31 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 13 min
This is our unabridged interview with Haleh Liza Gafori. Lees meer
Haleh Liza Gafori joins us for part two of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning?
It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?
Here, Haleh Liza Gafori—poet, musician, and translator—guides us into the world of the Sufi poet Rumi. We explore how his 13th-century Persian verse still speaks to the modern crises of anxiety, spiritual disconnection, materialism, and self-repression. But this isn’t just about literary history. For Gafori, Rumi has been a companion in healing, a guide through spiritual trauma, ego detachment, and the tyranny of the self.
We discuss poetry as a political act, a mystical practice, and a form of social critique. We look at how Iranian-American identity, religious fundamentalism, and Western imperialism shape the psyche—and how mystical poetry can help us see through, and beyond, these entanglements. We ask what it means to live a good life when the systems around us are built on fear and greed—and what role language, art, theology and ecstatic love can play in imagining something different.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript of our abridged episode with Haleh Liza Gafori on her translation of Rumi
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order
Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting BollAndBranch.com/NSE
AquaTru: Go to AquaTru.com and use promo code NSE
Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at piperandleaf.com
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community —…
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The Subtext: Liver King: Masculinity in Crisis
29 oktober 2025 · 48 min
When the “Liver King” built an empire on raw meat, steroids, and slogans about being “a real man,” what if he wasn’t selling a message based on muscles but mortality? In this episode, Savannah and Lee dig into how the fear of death shapes our obsession with control, strength, and self-sufficiency. Drawing from Untold: The Liver King, Scott Galloway’s research on the masculinity crisis, and Richard Beck’s The Slavery of Death, they trace a cultural thread that might tell us something about how we handle one of the rare, universal experiences: death. Lees meer
Things we mentioned in this episode:
Reviving Old Scratch by Richard Beck
The Slavery of Death by Richard Beck
The Many Lives of Mama Love by Lara Love Hardin
Scott Galloway on Armchair Expert
The Smoke Gets in Your Eyes by Caitlin Doughty
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233: Haleh Liza Gafori: The Poetry of Rumi, Theology, and Social Critique - Poetry Against the Dark
27 oktober 2025 · 51 min
Haleh Liza Gafori joins us for part two of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? Lees meer
It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?
Here, Haleh Liza Gafori—poet, musician, and translator—guides us into the world of the Sufi poet Rumi. We explore how his 13th-century Persian verse still speaks to the modern crises of anxiety, spiritual disconnection, materialism, and self-repression. But this isn’t just about literary history. For Gafori, Rumi has been a companion in healing, a guide through spiritual trauma, ego detachment, and the tyranny of the self.
We discuss poetry as a political act, a mystical practice, and a form of social critique. We look at how Iranian-American identity, religious fundamentalism, and Western imperialism shape the psyche—and how mystical poetry can help us see through, and beyond, these entanglements. We ask what it means to live a good life when the systems around us are built on fear and greed—and what role language, art, theology and ecstatic love can play in imagining something different.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript of our abridged episode with Haleh Liza Gafori on her translation of Rumi
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order
Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting BollAndBranch.com/NSE
AquaTru: Go to AquaTru.com and use promo code NSE
Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the Advent Calendar by using my code 'NSE' at piperandleaf.com
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and e…
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232: Unabridged Interview: Joy Harjo
24 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 1 min
Joy Harjo joins us for part one of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? Lees meer
It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?
Here, three‑term U.S. Poet Laureate Joy Harjo (Muskogee Creek Nation) shares how her poetry emerges from pain, memory, and fierce hope. She reflects on the loss and colonization embedded in her own family story—from the Trail of Tears to the extraction of resources from her tribal lands—and how those historical wounds still pulse in our shared present.
Harjo also traces her coming‑of‑age: learning to find voice through art and activism, encountering the power and beauty of Native elders and poets, recognizing the injustice hidden in history textbooks, and experiencing the healing that comes through being seen and witnessed in kindness. Amidst crises of war, climate, racial injustice, and spiritual dislocation, she argues that poetry is not luxury or escape—it is ritual, ceremony, language of the sacred, a way to speak to the soul and open space for listening and transformation.
Her upcoming book Girl Warrior: On Coming of Age becomes a touchstone in this conversation—one that unearths the raw edges of adolescence, grief, identity, heritage, and hope. This episode invites you to reckon with legacy, cultivate courage, and consider how poetry and voice are vital to living with purpose, meaning, and belonging.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for our episode with Joy Harjo
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order
Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting BollAndBranch.com/NSE
AquaTru: Go to AquaTru.com and use promo code NSE
Piper and Leaf: Get a 10% off discount to the…
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The Subtext: God and Gilmore Girls
22 oktober 2025 · 43 min
In this episode, Savannah and Lee celebrate the 25th anniversary of Gilmore Girls and use Melissa McCarthy’s viral story about Yanic Truesdale’s “fake” French accent as a springboard to talk about authenticity, faith, and what we’ve been trained to hear as “real.” From Luke’s Diner to the Sermon on the Mount, this episode asks: how do we tell the difference between the real thing and a good imitation…and would we even recognize Jesus’s accent if we heard it today? Lees meer
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232: Joy Harjo: Poetry and the Pursuit of Justice, Truth, and the Common Good - Poetry Against the Dark
20 oktober 2025 · 51 min
Joy Harjo joins us for part one of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? Lees meer
It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it?
Here, three‑term U.S. Poet Laureate Joy Harjo (Muskogee Creek Nation) shares how her poetry emerges from pain, memory, and fierce hope. She reflects on the loss and colonization embedded in her own family story—from the Trail of Tears to the extraction of resources from her tribal lands—and how those historical wounds still pulse in our shared present.
Harjo also traces her coming‑of‑age: learning to find voice through art and activism, encountering the power and beauty of Native elders and poets, recognizing the injustice hidden in history textbooks, and experiencing the healing that comes through being seen and witnessed in kindness. Amidst crises of war, climate, racial injustice, and spiritual dislocation, she argues that poetry is not luxury or escape—it is ritual, ceremony, language of the sacred, a way to speak to the soul and open space for listening and transformation.
Her upcoming book Girl Warrior: On Coming of Age becomes a touchstone in this conversation—one that unearths the raw edges of adolescence, grief, identity, heritage, and hope. This episode invites you to reckon with legacy, cultivate courage, and consider how poetry and voice are vital to living with purpose, meaning, and belonging.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for our episode with Joy Harjo
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order
Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting BollAndBranch.com/NSE
AquaTru: Go to AquaTru.com and use promo code NSE
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: http…
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231: Unabridged Interview: Garrett Graff
17 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 5 min
This is our unabridged interview with Garrett Graff. Lees meer
What can it possibly mean to flourish in our tech saturated world?
In the early 2000s, the internet felt like a civic miracle in the making, with profound possibilities for human flourishing and civic progress. Facebook gave voice to protestors in Egypt’s Tahrir Square. Twitter helped bring down dictators. The web seemed poised to enhance democracy, amplify transparency, and connect us more deeply. But then the tide turned.
This episode features Garrett Graff, historian, journalist, and host of the award-winning podcast Long Shadow: Breaking the Internet. In this sobering conversation, Graff joins Lee to unpack how a platform born of hope became a tool for outrage, surveillance, and even genocide.
Drawing on more than three decades of digital history, Graff traces how tech's shift from user-driven exploration to algorithmic manipulation created not just a loss of innocence—but a structural system designed to enrage. We hear the story of the Arab Spring, where connectivity spurred revolution, only to become a mechanism of authoritarian control. We examine Myanmar, where unchecked hate speech on Facebook helped fuel mass atrocities. And we explore a haunting question: What kind of people are we becoming through our use of these technologies?
Along the way, Graff reflects on his own tech optimism, the moral responsibility of tech executives, and why understanding internet history is a civic—not academic—duty. He and Lee also examine whether AI is already repeating these same mistakes.
If you’ve ever asked how the internet became what it is today—or what role we each play in its future—this episode offers both clarity and a call to courage.
Garrett Graff’s insights offer one of the most thoughtful takes yet on the digital age’s moral and social consequences.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Garrett Graff.
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and …
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The Subtext: The Life of a Showgirl (Lee’s Version)
15 oktober 2025 · 57 min
When a Christian influencer warns moms that Taylor Swift will lead their daughters astray, the conversation has moved beyond pop music and into culture. In this episode, Savannah and Lee trace how the church has wrestled with cultural artifacts, including Niebuhr’s Christ and Culture, and what frameworks can help us understand modern reactions to celebrities like Swift. Then, they turn to Life of a Showgirl to explore how Taylor’s own storytelling exposes what we actually believe about celebrity, power, and holiness in the world. Lees meer
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231: Garrett Graff: Social Media, Politics, and the Failure to Flourish
13 oktober 2025 · 51 min
What can it possibly mean to flourish in our tech saturated world? Lees meer
In the early 2000s, the internet felt like a civic miracle in the making, with profound possibilities for human flourishing and civic progress. Facebook gave voice to protestors in Egypt’s Tahrir Square. Twitter helped bring down dictators. The web seemed poised to enhance democracy, amplify transparency, and connect us more deeply. But then the tide turned.
This episode features Garrett Graff, historian, journalist, and host of the award-winning podcast Long Shadow: Breaking the Internet. In this sobering conversation, Graff joins Lee to unpack how a platform born of hope became a tool for outrage, surveillance, and even genocide.
Drawing on more than three decades of digital history, Graff traces how tech's shift from user-driven exploration to algorithmic manipulation created not just a loss of innocence—but a structural system designed to enrage. We hear the story of the Arab Spring, where connectivity spurred revolution, only to become a mechanism of authoritarian control. We examine Myanmar, where unchecked hate speech on Facebook helped fuel mass atrocities. And we explore a haunting question: What kind of people are we becoming through our use of these technologies?
Along the way, Graff reflects on his own tech optimism, the moral responsibility of tech executives, and why understanding internet history is a civic—not academic—duty. He and Lee also examine whether AI is already repeating these same mistakes.
If you’ve ever asked how the internet became what it is today—or what role we each play in its future—this episode offers both clarity and a call to courage.
Garrett Graff’s insights offer one of the most thoughtful takes yet on the digital age’s moral and social consequences.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Garrett Graff.
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order
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230: Unabridged Interview: Anna Sale
10 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 13 min
This is our unabridged interview with Anna Sale. Lees meer
When Anna Sale launched Death, Sex & Money in 2014, she was 30 years old, newly divorced, living alone in a studio apartment in New York City, and trying to figure out what her life would become. She had covered politics as a reporter, but her personal world was unraveling. So she started asking strangers to talk about hard things, the questions she herself was desperate to explore: How do people rebuild after loss? What do we do with grief, shame, money, or fractured relationships? What does it mean to live with honesty when the easy script disappears?
Over the past decade, Anna Sale has become one of the most trusted voices on how to have hard conversations—the ones we often avoid but need most. Her hit podcast has been named Podcast of the Year by The Atlantic and Apple Podcasts, and her book, Let’s Talk About Hard Things, has been embraced as a guide for meaningful living.
In this conversation, Anna and Lee explore the important difference between "let's talk about HARD things" and "yes, LET's! let's talk about hard things." And why talk about hard things might be, potentially, among the most life-giving conversations. They discuss shame and grief, the ways our families teach us what not to talk about, and the habits that help us listen well. Anna reflects on her own divorce, her Unitarian Universalist upbringing, and how practices of honesty and vulnerability help us build flourishing relationships even across cultural divides.
Along the way, Anna shares wisdom on navigating sex and intimacy without shame, why money conversations trigger so much discomfort, and what facing death can teach us about authentic human flourishing. Her insights blend psychology and happiness research, theology and culture, and a deep faith in the inherent dignity of every person.
A beautiful conversation about being human, and about what becomes possible when we have the courage to ask hard questions and the patience to really li…
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From Revisionist History: The Alabama Murders [ft. Lee Camp]
9 oktober 2025 · 34 min
Here’s a preview of a new podcast series that Lee recently appeared in, The Alabama Murders from Revisionist History. Florence, Alabama. 1988. A preacher has an affair. A woman is murdered. One death cascades into more, stretching across decades and leaving no one untouched — victims, bystanders, perpetrators, and those just trying to help. On The Alabama Murders, Malcolm Gladwell asks: why, in our efforts to alleviate suffering, do we so often make it worse? Find Revisionist History: The Alabama Murders wherever you get podcasts.
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The Subtext: When Artists Fund the Military
8 oktober 2025 · 42 min
When Spotify CEO Daniel Ek invests in a military AI startup, it raises a deeper question: how do we live with integrity in systems that profit from harm? In this episode, we explore the uncomfortable relationship between the best and brightest, money, and violence—from Deerhoof’s protest to Oppenheimer’s legacy, from Walter Wink’s “powers that be” to Dorothy Day’s radical refusal to cooperate. Is resistance possible in a world where no dollar is clean? And what does the Kingdom of God have to do with any of it? Lees meer
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230: Anna Sale: Cultivating Courage to Talk About Hard Things, like Death, Sex, and Money
6 oktober 2025 · 52 min
When Anna Sale launched Death, Sex & Money in 2014, she was 30 years old, newly divorced, living alone in a studio apartment in New York City, and trying to figure out what her life would become. She had covered politics as a reporter, but her personal world was unraveling. So she started asking strangers to talk about hard things, the questions she herself was desperate to explore: How do people rebuild after loss? What do we do with grief, shame, money, or fractured relationships? What does it mean to live with honesty when the easy script disappears? Lees meer
Over the past decade, Anna Sale has become one of the most trusted voices on how to have hard conversations—the ones we often avoid but need most. Her hit podcast has been named Podcast of the Year by The Atlantic and Apple Podcasts, and her book, Let’s Talk About Hard Things, has been embraced as a guide for meaningful living.
In this conversation, Anna and Lee explore the important difference between "let's talk about HARD things" and "yes, LET's! let's talk about hard things." And why talk about hard things might be, potentially, among the most life-giving conversations. They discuss shame and grief, the ways our families teach us what not to talk about, and the habits that help us listen well. Anna reflects on her own divorce, her Unitarian Universalist upbringing, and how practices of honesty and vulnerability help us build flourishing relationships even across cultural divides.
Along the way, Anna shares wisdom on navigating sex and intimacy without shame, why money conversations trigger so much discomfort, and what facing death can teach us about authentic human flourishing. Her insights blend psychology and happiness research, theology and culture, and a deep faith in the inherent dignity of every person.
A beautiful conversation about being human, and about what becomes possible when we have the courage to ask hard questions and the patience to really listen.
Please be advised that this episode contain…
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229: Unabridged Interview: Terence Lester
3 oktober 2025 · 1 uur 5 min
This is our unabridged interview with Terence Lester. Lees meer
It was three days before Christmas when Terence Lester’s family dropped him beneath a bridge in Atlanta. With no change of clothes and a biting winter cold, he began a month-long experiment in solidarity with the unhoused. Strangers offered blankets, socks, even stories around a firepit. It was humbling, painful, and life-altering. And it was from this crucible that Love Beyond Walls was born—a nonprofit dedicated to restoring dignity and community for those pushed to the margins: an exploration into what human flourishing might entail among the disenfranchised.
In this episode of No Small Endeavor, Lee C. Camp sits down with scholar and activist Terence Lester, whose own journey from dropout to doctorate is as much about human flourishing as it is about survival. His book, From Dropout to Doctorate: Breaking the Chains of Educational Injustice, chronicles the wounds of generational trauma, systemic barriers, and the loneliness of feeling unseen—but also the surprising sanctuaries: a stranger’s word of courage, a teacher’s belief, and a church’s embrace, and the daily practices that sustain new ways forward.
They explore how trauma shapes education, how community makes flourishing relationships possible, and how storytelling itself becomes a form of justice. Terence Lester reminds us that poverty is not just economic—it is cultural, emotional, spiritual—and that courage and compassion are required if we are to serve the common good. It is an invitation to become people who borrow and lend courage, to create sanctuaries for others, and to live with an intention toward justice, belonging, and authentic human flourishing.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Terence Lester
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NSE for 15% off your next order
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The Subtext: Friendship Recession
1 oktober 2025 · 44 min
In this episode, Lee and Savannah explore why friendships are harder to form and sustain in today’s culture, despite living in the most “connected” era in history. They examine how technology and convenience have reshaped friendship from a priority into a luxury. They ask whether these shifts meet our deep human need for connection or quietly erode it. Ultimately, the conversation wrestles with how we might resist the forces of isolation and reclaim friendship as essential to a flourishing life. Lees meer
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229: Terence Lester: Human Flourishing, Self Development, and the Common Good
29 september 2025 · 52 min
It was three days before Christmas when Terence Lester’s family dropped him beneath a bridge in Atlanta. With no change of clothes and a biting winter cold, he began a month-long experiment in solidarity with the unhoused. Strangers offered blankets, socks, even stories around a firepit. It was humbling, painful, and life-altering. And it was from this crucible that Love Beyond Walls was born—a nonprofit dedicated to restoring dignity and community for those pushed to the margins: an exploration into what human flourishing might entail among the disenfranchised. Lees meer
In this episode of No Small Endeavor, Lee C. Camp sits down with scholar and activist Terence Lester, whose own journey from dropout to doctorate is as much about human flourishing as it is about survival. His book, From Dropout to Doctorate: Breaking the Chains of Educational Injustice, chronicles the wounds of generational trauma, systemic barriers, and the loneliness of feeling unseen—but also the surprising sanctuaries: a stranger’s word of courage, a teacher’s belief, and a church’s embrace, and the daily practices that sustain new ways forward.
They explore how trauma shapes education, how community makes flourishing relationships possible, and how storytelling itself becomes a form of justice. Terence Lester reminds us that poverty is not just economic—it is cultural, emotional, spiritual—and that courage and compassion are required if we are to serve the common good. It is an invitation to become people who borrow and lend courage, to create sanctuaries for others, and to live with an intention toward justice, belonging, and authentic human flourishing.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Terence Lester
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Click here and use code NSE for 15% off your next order.
Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting BollAndBranch.com/NSE
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://w…
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228: Unabridged Interview: Jen Hatmaker
26 september 2025 · 1 uur 7 min
This is our unabridged interview with Jen Hatmaker. Lees meer
Jen Hatmaker's world unraveled at 2.00 a.m. one night when she awoke to hear her husband of 26 years lying beside her in bed, voice-texting his girlfriend.
That's the brutal story with which Jen begins her new memoir, Awake: A Memoir of Reinvention and Recovery. It was the start of a long, painful journey—through grief, honesty with her self, and ultimately, toward authentic human flourishing.
Jen shares what it meant to lose not only her marriage, but also the public persona she had spent decades building. Best known as a bestselling author and beloved Christian speaker, Hatmaker found herself stripped of the institutional supports that once held her world together. And yet, in that undoing, she began the slow work of reinvention.
Lee and Jen explore the process of grief, self-awareness, and personal growth—why many of us fear the truth, how religious systems can discourage vulnerability, and what it looks like to move from codependency toward self-compassion. And, Hatmaker speaks candidly about the body’s wisdom, the challenge of letting go, and the act of befriending yourself.
Jen Hatmaker is the author of fourteen books, including four New York Times bestsellers, and host of the podcast For the Love. Her latest book, Awake, offers a vulnerable account of healing after loss—exploring what it means to live with purpose, even when everything falls apart.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Jen Hatmaker
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Click here and use code NSE for 15% off your next order.
Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting BollAndBranch.com/NSE
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make…
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The Subtext: America’s Sweethearts: Pom Poms and Pay Gaps
24 september 2025 · 51 min
In this episode, Savannah Locke and Lee C. Camp dive into a critical discussion of the Netflix show "America's Sweethearts" and the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders' fight for fair wages. This sparks a broader conversation about the wealth gap, the commodification of labor—including human bodies—in professional sports, and the different types of justice. They explore why many American Christians might be hesitant to critique systemic wealth inequality, referencing historical Christian traditions on money and justice. Plus important public service announcements about skunks and shoes. Lees meer
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228: Jen Hatmaker: When Everything Breaks: Grief, Growth, and Human Flourishing
22 september 2025 · 51 min
Jen Hatmaker's world unraveled at 2.00 a.m. one night when she awoke to hear her husband of 26 years lying beside her in bed, voice-texting his girlfriend. Lees meer
That's the brutal story with which Jen begins her new memoir, Awake: A Memoir of Reinvention and Recovery. It was the start of a long, painful journey—through grief, honesty with her self, and ultimately, toward authentic human flourishing.
Jen shares what it meant to lose not only her marriage, but also the public persona she had spent decades building. Best known as a bestselling author and beloved Christian speaker, Hatmaker found herself stripped of the institutional supports that once held her world together. And yet, in that undoing, she began the slow work of reinvention.
Lee and Jen explore the process of grief, self-awareness, and personal growth—why many of us fear the truth, how religious systems can discourage vulnerability, and what it looks like to move from codependency toward self-compassion. And, Hatmaker speaks candidly about the body’s wisdom, the challenge of letting go, and the act of befriending yourself.
Jen Hatmaker is the author of fourteen books, including four New York Times bestsellers, and host of the podcast For the Love. Her latest book, Awake, offers a vulnerable account of healing after loss—exploring what it means to live with purpose, even when everything falls apart.
Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript for abridged episode with Jen Hatmaker
Thank you to our sponsors:
Ka’Chava: Click here and use code NSE for 15% off your next order.
Boll and Branch: Get 20% off plus free shipping by visiting BollAndBranch.com/NSE
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-…
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227: Unabridged Interview: Max Lucado
19 september 2025 · 1 uur 17 min
This is our unabridged interview with Max Lucado. Lees meer
Called “America’s Pastor," Max Lucado has sold more than 150 million products and authored over 40 nonfiction books. In this vulnerable career retrospective interview, Lee explores what led Max Lucado to become almost synonymous with grace, acceptance and forgiveness--namely some of his own wounds from childhood experiences in a frugal, sometimes emotionally volatile West Texas home. He recounts stories of his mother--whom he deeply loved--struggling with undiagnosed depression and difficult mood swings; a cheerful and industrious father who modeled stability; and Max's own heavy drinking in his teenage years.
We also discuss Max's new book, Tame Your Thoughts, rooted in the psychology of thought management alongside biblical principles. As rates of depression and anxiety spike, especially among young people, Lucado’s integration of neuroscience, spiritual reflection, and practical action speaks directly to the needs of a culture wrestling with mental health and personal growth. He shares candidly about his wife’s experience with depression, his own evolving understanding of clinical support, and how brain science—particularly studies around neuroplasticity—has reshaped his approach to spiritual life and leadership.
The conversation also examines the ethics of silence and speech, particularly in the context of evangelicalism and American politics. Lucado explains why he historically avoided political commentary—and why, in key moments, he broke that rule. From criticizing Donald Trump’s character during the 2016 election, to asking public forgiveness at a 2020 Black Lives Matter prayer event, he reflects on the risks and responsibilities involved in public moral witness.
Themes of grace, trauma, conviction, and community intertwine with personal storytelling and spiritual wisdom. It’s an invitation not just to understand Max Lucado better—but to examine the stories, bruises, and beliefs that shape our own lives.…
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The Subtext: Keeping the Man in Superman
17 september 2025 · 49 min
In this episode, we dissect the summer blockbuster Superman that flips the script by emphasizing vulnerability and humanity over untouchable power. Fans have praised the way the movie let Superman cry, lose, and even ask for help, while critics argue it made him too weak. We connect these reactions to questions of faith, asking what it means to worship a vulnerable God who suffered, wept, and even seemed to lose. Lees meer
This episode was recorded on August 29, 2025.
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227: Max Lucado: “America’s Pastor” on How to Tame Your Thoughts
15 september 2025 · 52 min
Called “America’s Pastor," Max Lucado has sold more than 150 million products and authored over 40 nonfiction books. In this vulnerable career retrospective interview, Lee explores what led Max Lucado to become almost synonymous with grace, acceptance and forgiveness--namely some of his own wounds from childhood experiences in a frugal, sometimes emotionally volatile West Texas home. He recounts stories of his mother--whom he deeply loved--struggling with undiagnosed depression and difficult mood swings; a cheerful and industrious father who modeled stability; and Max's own heavy drinking in his teenage years. Lees meer
We also discuss Max's new book, Tame Your Thoughts, rooted in the psychology of thought management alongside biblical principles. As rates of depression and anxiety spike, especially among young people, Lucado’s integration of neuroscience, spiritual reflection, and practical action speaks directly to the needs of a culture wrestling with mental health and personal growth. He shares candidly about his wife’s experience with depression, his own evolving understanding of clinical support, and how brain science—particularly studies around neuroplasticity—has reshaped his approach to spiritual life and leadership.
The conversation also examines the ethics of silence and speech, particularly in the context of evangelicalism and American politics. Lucado explains why he historically avoided political commentary—and why, in key moments, he broke that rule. From criticizing Donald Trump’s character during the 2016 election, to asking public forgiveness at a 2020 Black Lives Matter prayer event, he reflects on the risks and responsibilities involved in public moral witness.
Themes of grace, trauma, conviction, and community intertwine with personal storytelling and spiritual wisdom. It’s an invitation not just to understand Max Lucado better—but to examine the stories, bruises, and beliefs that shape our own lives. How might your past inform your calling? What hidd…
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226: Unabridged Interview: Amy Sherman
12 september 2025 · 1 uur 8 min
This is our unabridged interview with Amy Sherman. Lees meer
What if the church were known not for culture wars or abuses of power, but for building parks, strengthening schools, advancing science education, and championing restorative justice?
That’s the vision Amy L. Sherman lays out in her book Agents of Flourishing. In this conversation, Sherman invites us to imagine faith communities not as insular institutions, but as agents of civic renewal—places that contribute to the common good.
Her framework centers on six “endowments” of a thriving society: the Good, the True, the Beautiful, the Just, the Prosperous, and the Sustainable. Each is a way of asking how theology might shape public life: how churches partner with schools, support economic models that value workers and neighborhoods, invest in the arts, and even help design more beautiful and livable cities.
At its heart, this is a call to recover a holistic, biblically grounded vision of shalom—where faith is not reduced to Sunday services or private belief, but becomes a public witness for wholeness in our relationships, institutions, and communities.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness.
Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, …
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226: Amy Sherman: A Faith-Based Vision for the Common Good
8 september 2025 · 51 min
What if the church were known not for culture wars or abuses of power, but for building parks, strengthening schools, advancing science education, and championing restorative justice? Lees meer
That’s the vision Amy L. Sherman lays out in her book Agents of Flourishing. In this conversation, Sherman invites us to imagine faith communities not as insular institutions, but as agents of civic renewal—places that contribute to the common good.
Her framework centers on six “endowments” of a thriving society: the Good, the True, the Beautiful, the Just, the Prosperous, and the Sustainable. Each is a way of asking how theology might shape public life: how churches partner with schools, support economic models that value workers and neighborhoods, invest in the arts, and even help design more beautiful and livable cities.
At its heart, this is a call to recover a holistic, biblically grounded vision of shalom—where faith is not reduced to Sunday services or private belief, but becomes a public witness for wholeness in our relationships, institutions, and communities.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness.
Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, in…
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225: Unabridged Interview: Parker Palmer (Part 2)
5 september 2025 · 1 uur 27 min
This is part two of our unabridged interview with Parker Palmer. Lees meer
“Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.”
At 86 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive.
In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived with attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through three major bouts of depression, which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.
Show Notes
Resources:
Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer
The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer
Similar Episodes:
Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
Author of The Shack: William Paul Young
Transcript
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness.
Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp
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225: Unabridged Interview: Parker Palmer (Part 1)
5 september 2025 · 1 uur 25 min
This is part one of our unabridged interview with Parker Palmer. Lees meer
“Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.”
At 86 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive.
In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived with attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through three major bouts of depression, which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.
Show Notes
Resources:
Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer
The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer
Similar Episodes:
Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
Author of The Shack: William Paul Young
Transcript
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness.
Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp
Learn more about your ad choic… -
225: Parker Palmer: Courage, Vocation, and Paradox (Best of NSE)
1 september 2025 · 51 min
“Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.” Lees meer
At 86 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive.
In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived with attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through three major bouts of depression, which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.
Show Notes
Resources:
Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer
The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer
Similar Episodes:
Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
Author of The Shack: William Paul Young
Transcript
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness.
Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
224: Unabridged Interview: Anne-Laure Le Cunff
29 augustus 2025 · 59 min
This is our unabridged interview with Anne-Laure Le Cunff. Lees meer
When Anne-Laure Le Cunff—then a high-achieving Google executive—was told to go to the hospital for a life-threatening blood clot, she found herself first checking her calendar. Her bizarre response told her something was wrong with her life and priorities. She left Silicon Valley, earned a degree in neuroscience, and wrote Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World.
In this conversation with Lee C. Camp, Le Cunff explores the neuroscience behind procrastination, perfectionism, and burnout. She introduces a radical yet practical shift: replacing rigid goal-setting with small, curiosity-driven experiments. Drawing from her research at King’s College London and her work at Ness Labs, she explains how embracing uncertainty and intentional imperfection can unlock personal growth, reduce anxiety, and spark creativity.
You’ll learn how to redesign your relationship with productivity by experimenting with tiny experiments, explore the psychology of goal-setting, and discover how tiny experiments can help rewire your mental scripts. For anyone struggling with burnout, toxic perfectionism, or simply feeling stuck, this episode offers a science-backed path toward a more adaptive, joyful life.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life g…
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224: Anne-Laure Le Cunff: The Peril of Productivity, and the Happiness of Tiny Experiments
25 augustus 2025 · 52 min
When Anne-Laure Le Cunff—then a high-achieving Google executive—was told to go to the hospital for a life-threatening blood clot, she found herself first checking her calendar. Her bizarre response told her something was wrong with her life and priorities. She left Silicon Valley, earned a degree in neuroscience, and wrote Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World. Lees meer
In this conversation with Lee C. Camp, Le Cunff explores the neuroscience behind procrastination, perfectionism, and burnout. She introduces a radical yet practical shift: replacing rigid goal-setting with small, curiosity-driven experiments. Drawing from her research at King’s College London and her work at Ness Labs, she explains how embracing uncertainty and intentional imperfection can unlock personal growth, reduce anxiety, and spark creativity.
You’ll learn how to redesign your relationship with productivity by experimenting with tiny experiments, explore the psychology of goal-setting, and discover how tiny experiments can help rewire your mental scripts. For anyone struggling with burnout, toxic perfectionism, or simply feeling stuck, this episode offers a science-backed path toward a more adaptive, joyful life.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness.
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223: Unabridged Interview: Baratunde Thurston
22 augustus 2025 · 1 uur 10 min
This is our unabridged interview with Baratunde Thurston. Lees meer
What does it mean to be human in the age of AI?
From writing for The Onion to hosting PBS’s America Outdoors and launching the hit podcast Life With Machines, Baratunde Thurston has spent a career telling stories about interdependence—with one another, with the natural world, and now, with rising machine intelligence. Together, he and Lee unpack how AI both challenges and affirms our humanity, and what practices of democracy might guide us toward a more equitable technological future.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness.
Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp
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223: Baratunde Thurston: Being Human in the Age of AI
18 augustus 2025 · 52 min
What does it mean to be human in the age of AI? Lees meer
From writing for The Onion to hosting PBS’s America Outdoors and launching the hit podcast Life With Machines, Baratunde Thurston has spent a career telling stories about interdependence—with one another, with the natural world, and now, with rising machine intelligence. Together, he and Lee unpack how AI both challenges and affirms our humanity, and what practices of democracy might guide us toward a more equitable technological future.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
Tickets to Nov 23rd NSE Live in Nashville: https://www.nashvillesymphony.org/nosmallendeavor
Join NSE+ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable.
No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness.
Follow @nosmallendeavor
Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp
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222: Unabridged Interview: Dan Heath
15 augustus 2025 · 1 uur 9 min
This is our unabridged interview with Dan Heath. Lees meer
Do you feel like your life needs a reset?
Lee C. Camp sits down with Dan Heath, bestselling author and host of the podcast What It's Like To Be, to explore strategies of how we can change, whether at work or in our personal lives. In his new book Reset: How to Change What’s Not Working, Dan shares proven techniques he discovered to help transform small observations into meaningful change, paving the way for a more satisfying life.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community
Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
222: Dan Heath: How to Change What’s Not Working
11 augustus 2025 · 52 min
Do you feel like your life needs a reset? Lees meer
Lee C. Camp sits down with Dan Heath, bestselling author and host of the podcast What It's Like To Be, to explore strategies of how we can change, whether at work or in our personal lives. In his new book Reset: How to Change What’s Not Working, Dan shares proven techniques he discovered to help transform small observations into meaningful change, paving the way for a more satisfying life.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community
Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
221: Unabridged Interview: Sharon McMahon
8 augustus 2025 · 1 uur 15 min
This is our unabridged interview with Sharon McMahon. Lees meer
Have you ever wished someone would explain the inner workings of America’s political landscape — without taking sides or fueling the outrage machine?
With over 1.3 million Instagram followers, Sharon McMahon, known affectionately as “America’s Government Teacher,” has spent her career doing exactly that. Drawing from her roots in public education, Sharon rose to prominence on social media during the chaotic 2020 election season. Her clear, fact-based explanations of complex government processes have garnered her a loyal following of self-proclaimed “Governerds,” and today, her teaching reaches millions through her acclaimed podcast, Here's Where It Gets Interesting, her best-selling book The Small and the Mighty, and The Preamble, one of America's most widely-read nonpartisan newsletters. In this thoughtful conversation, Sharon reflects on the transformative power of education, the urgent need for informed civic participation, and the hopeful possibilities that emerge when we approach politics not as partisan warriors but as compassionate, curious learners.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community
Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
221: Sharon McMahon: Escaping the Partisan Trap
4 augustus 2025 · 52 min
Have you ever wished someone would explain the inner workings of America’s political landscape — without taking sides or fueling the outrage machine? Lees meer
With over 1.3 million Instagram followers, Sharon McMahon, known affectionately as “America’s Government Teacher,” has spent her career doing exactly that. Drawing from her roots in public education, Sharon rose to prominence on social media during the chaotic 2020 election season. Her clear, fact-based explanations of complex government processes have garnered her a loyal following of self-proclaimed “Governerds,” and today, her teaching reaches millions through her acclaimed podcast, Here's Where It Gets Interesting, her best-selling book The Small and the Mighty, and The Preamble, one of America's most widely-read nonpartisan newsletters. In this thoughtful conversation, Sharon reflects on the transformative power of education, the urgent need for informed civic participation, and the hopeful possibilities that emerge when we approach politics not as partisan warriors but as compassionate, curious learners.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community
Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
220: Unabridged Interview: Emma Varvaloucas
1 augustus 2025 · 1 uur 3 min
This is our unabridged interview with Emma Varvaloucas. Lees meer
What if the way you consume the news could shape the world for the better?
In this stirring conversation, Lee C. Camp sits down with journalist and Buddhist practitioner Emma Varvaloucas, Executive Director of The Progress Network, to explore how we can reclaim our agency in a world addicted to anxiety.
Emma shares practical tips for engaging with the news that not only have the potential to reduce despair but may unlock new energy to take action for a better world. Drawing from her journey through Buddhism, therapy, and even psychedelics, Emma offers tools for transforming our inner world and renewing our civic imagination. This is not about wishful thinking, but a hopeful realism rooted in data, perspective, and the belief that how we see the world can help change it.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community
Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
220: Emma Varvaloucas: Mind Over Media
28 juli 2025 · 52 min
What if the way you consume the news could shape the world for the better? Lees meer
In this stirring conversation, Lee C. Camp sits down with journalist and Buddhist practitioner Emma Varvaloucas, Executive Director of The Progress Network, to explore how we can reclaim our agency in a world addicted to anxiety.
Emma shares practical tips for engaging with the news that not only have the potential to reduce despair but may unlock new energy to take action for a better world. Drawing from her journey through Buddhism, therapy, and even psychedelics, Emma offers tools for transforming our inner world and renewing our civic imagination. This is not about wishful thinking, but a hopeful realism rooted in data, perspective, and the belief that how we see the world can help change it.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community
Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
219: Unabridged Interview: Melina Laboucan-Massimo
25 juli 2025 · 1 uur 6 min
This is our unabridged interview with Melina Laboucan-Massimo. Lees meer
What does perseverance look like on the long road to justice?
Melina Laboucan-Massimo was born in the Lubicon Cree community of Little Buffalo, in what today is called northern Alberta. Some of her earliest memories include chasing dragonflies through pristine wilderness and protesting with her family against the oil and gas companies that threatened their way of life. Melina spent decades tirelessly advocating for climate justice and indigenous rights, until recently, when the Alberta wildfires left her bedridden and exhausted. Today, Melina and Lee discuss her journey back to health and the pathways forward, grounded in Indigenous knowledge, balance, and collective flourishing.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community
Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
219: Melina Laboucan-Massimo: Indigenous Wisdom and the Fight for Justice
21 juli 2025 · 52 min
What does perseverance look like on the long road to justice? Lees meer
Melina Laboucan-Massimo was born in the Lubicon Cree community of Little Buffalo, in what today is called northern Alberta. Some of her earliest memories include chasing dragonflies through pristine wilderness and protesting with her family against the oil and gas companies that threatened their way of life. Melina spent decades tirelessly advocating for climate justice and indigenous rights, until recently, when the Alberta wildfires left her bedridden and exhausted. Today, Melina and Lee discuss her journey back to health and the pathways forward, grounded in Indigenous knowledge, balance, and collective flourishing.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community
Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
218: Unabridged Interview: Michael Luo
18 juli 2025 · 1 uur 4 min
This is our unabridged interview with Michael Luo. Lees meer
When journalist Michael Luo was told to “go back to China” on a Manhattan sidewalk, it sparked a deeply personal journey into America’s past. In his new book Strangers in the Land, Luo unearths the overlooked history of Chinese exclusion in the U.S.—from early migrations and violent hostility to the nation’s first racially targeted immigration laws. He reflects on the enduring legacies of that history and the echoes we see today. Michael explores not just patterns of injustice but also stories of resilience and solidarity that offer a hopeful vision for America’s future.
Show Notes, Resources and Transcript
No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, cardinal virtues, how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, happiness, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, community
Join our subscriber only community called NSE+ BY CLICKING HERE. Get ad-free listening, great member only bonus content, and early access to tickets for our live shows. AND, know that you're helping make NSE sustainable by becoming a member.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices